Lisa Wong: Creating Balance

I talk with Healer, Guide, and Teacher Lisa Wong about the challenges she faced growing up in a mixed-race family and the decisions she’s made that have shaped her into the person she is today.

Connect with Lisa:
Facebook: @LWongCreatingBalance
Instagram: @lisa.wong.creating.balance



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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00):

Hello, and welcome to the mindbodyfree podcast. I’m your host Abigail Moss. And I’m sitting here today with the lovely Lisa Wong and she is a spiritual life coach and teacher of dragon path, energy healing, Reiki, master teacher, author, CBT, and NLP practitioner. And she’s born into it. Multi-racial cultural family.

That was a challenge at one time, but now it is a blessing of growth, acceptance, and cohesion. She’s experiencing a lifetime of self-discovery and inner healing and has come to an understanding that we continue to grow and learn throughout our entire life. Being, and staying curious has been the catalyst to her learning and teaching.

And she enjoys being in a community with people who will be open to receiving and open to sharing life and experiences that are personal and she enjoys hearing the stories. Welcome, Lisa, thank you for being here. We were just chatting and had some nice banter earlier. Some good, like deep belly laughs

Lisa (00:01:06): 

Thanks for having me.

Abby (00:01:08): 

Yeah. When it’s like, you’re just saying too before we kind of jumped on, that’s like, I feel like laughter’s kinda needed right now and you know, some lightness things to Brighton and, something that I’ve always appreciated about you is that you are quick to laugh and quick to like.

Share something that just reminds us all of the hilarity, everything to not take it so seriously.

Lisa (00:01:32): Absolutely. I learned that early if we can learn to laugh at ourselves, it helps us a lot in our healing journey. So if you have a story that you tell yourself and you look at it from that negative side, And then one day you wake up and you go, I’m going to put a spin on this.

Because of this, this doesn’t feel right to me anymore. So you tell yourself a story about something that you did, that other person may have looked at you askance and all of a sudden it becomes funny because you go, oh my Lord, I can’t believe I did that. But that’s so funny. And I didn’t realize it at the time.

It was such a growth moment. So for example, here at a, say, a family gathering where you have people of mixed beliefs and. Somebody says something to you and you go, oh, well, I can read your aura. And the entire room goes silent.

Abby (00:02:33): 

What are the weird ones here? What do we do?

Lisa (00:02:41): 

And you know, sometimes as we grow into our path, we say, know your audience. Well, sometimes. It’s okay because you get the nudge that says, Hey, just say this. They’re like, okay, please say it. And what’s interesting about that is at that moment, all the people who are on the edge, sitting on the fence of belief and not believing.

Even though they’re silent, they’re going to fall off to one side or the other at that moment. And I’m hoping that they search inside of themselves for their truth. Instead of looking at everybody else in the room with their mouths open and staring sideways at the person in the room. God. Mm.

That person’s weird. Weird is my shtick. I have always been weird and I embraced my weirdness. 

Abby (00:03:30): 

A hundred percent, what a wonderful thing to embrace. Does that mean that they teach in neuro-linguistic programming and NLP?. It’s like the pattern interrupt when someone is like, kind of dumbfounded?

They’re like they have a great WTF. Like being weird as if it’s a blessing to be. Bringing forth those it’s like it knocks them out of their usual thinking pattern and then it allows them to think, to explore something. You know, I love how you said, you know, you just bring lightness to it and are you just, you know, know your audience and you share kind of, what’s ready to be shared at that time.

And then they can move into that or not it’s their choice, but then they give them, it allows them to have that choice. 

Lisa (00:04:19): Yes. And it also helps people. Widen their scope. So if they’re questioning, it allows them to say, Hey, there’s somebody I know that knows stuff about this.

And I’m curious, but I don’t want people to know that I’m curious. Exactly. Do you know the story we tell ourselves? We tell ourselves this great story. When it’s somebody, they feel comfortable with it, they can go, well, they’re not going to laugh at me. They’re going to perhaps even show me how to laugh at myself.

Abby (00:04:53): 

Totally. Totally. I used to call it like coming out of the spiritual closet. Yes. It’s like, you could be sitting at a whole table with people who are like, oh man, all these exp I would love to talk about these things, but they’re all gonna, I’m like, everyone’s thinking about that at the same time. It’s like it just takes one person to be like, you know what?

This is my life and I’m happy to share it.

Lisa (00:05:14): 

Yeah, and it’s comfortable. And I guess it’s because of the stigma put on people who work in energy or work with loved ones in spirit events. And there has been a stigma that, of course, that’s dark and. Not ideal for people and that these people are charlatans.

They’re going to take your money. I mean, we can go over that forever. When in reality, there is so much healing that I do from the things that I experienced. And when people bring to me their stories in their sessions with me, there’s always a piece of that. That is what I’ve lived.

Abby (00:06:07): 

Yeah. And that’s beautiful because as a healer, you get to, it’s like we’re walking each other home. Sometimes I just find that It’s like, my soul recognizes that and we’re going to heal this together.  And that’s what’s so beautiful about that. Is it this as you well know, this is not for the faint of heart, this journey.

Lisa (00:06:35): 

And, when I first started, I had the stars in my eyes and the, you know, the, oh, I’m going to do this and it’s going to be great and it’s going to be this, and it’s going to be that. And then. Oh, well, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. It’s great. And it’s awesome. And it’s work. And I have found a lot of laughter. I have found some tears and growth, so much growth, and I think when we allow ourselves to change our story, our interpretation, our understanding deconstruct what it is we believe.

And then find some humor in that. Right. I used to believe this and all of a sudden you go, wow. I must’ve been on crack or something when I was thinking, oh, I was thinking that I was all right. That was good. That wasn’t fun. 

Abby (00:07:37): 

That’s all of it. Right. Changing the stories. That’s like, that’s the operating system that points, points, everything around you changes that.

I want to circle back just for a moment to when you’re talking about the kind of, I kind of think of it as like being seen, like as a healer to allow yourself to walk this path, you know, it’s not for the faint of heart, it’s kind of a path home to yourself. I see it as helping other people get there.

But it’s, I feel like there’s a lot of people and I was in this camp or I was afraid of being seen as too weird, too witchy or too weird. And, you know, I didn’t know, there was just like this immobilizing. And, you know, I have to have, I have so much respect for the people who are doing this work and for the people who are doing mediumship, there’s a lot of that on mediumship too, you know, that those taboos and like old and days judgments of what should be and shouldn’t, and to step up in the face of that and continue to do this work that is so important.

And, instant box. The other side of, you know, just embodies what it means to just do the work, regardless of all of the stories that may be floating around, out in the collective. You know, it’s just, it’s a level of being seen that I respect. 

Lisa (00:09:12): 

And it’s interesting because having experienced my younger years, growing up, I have.

Honestly, I have often been afraid of going well, here I am. And take me as I am. This is it. This is what, what you see is what you get. Mainly because of the experiences I had growing up in a small town, is that not everybody embraced the fact that my mother is Caucasian and my father is not. And we have to realize this is in the sixties and it was frowned upon for interracial marriages.

And it was illegal in the state. Wow. And my parents got married before it even became legal in the states. I was two, when the states finally passed a law, that it was okay for races to marry each other. So I was the kid in the playground that all 30 pounds of me, probably two feet tall would have no problem.

Standing up for who I was and listening to the people that would tell me that I was lesser than, or that I wasn’t the same, or that I was different and I had no problem facing them down. And so I have learned that from a very young age and brought it forward to everything that I’ve done in my life as I’ve grown up.

Every job I’ve had. I have never been afraid of being accountable for what I do, taking my responsibility, finding the humor, of course, in every story that I have, but also about not being afraid to present who I am and also understanding. There are times in my life that I have to address who I was.

Abby (00:11:11): 

Who you are versus who you were. That is. And who you, what, who you were, when you talk about that, do you mean the stories or that moment in life, 

Lisa (00:11:24): 

Or both because when we have that moment in life, we’re telling ourselves a particular story, we have a soundtrack of our life that we’re playing in our head.

And sometimes the soundtrack is. You know, kinda nice gentle flowy music, and other times it ACDC or it’s thresher music or death metal. Right. And sometimes it’s Disney.

So of course we, the delusion of Disney. Yes.

Abby (00:12:03): 

Its trauma is going to sweep me away and everything will be happily ever after forever.

 Lisa (00:12:09): 

I just wanted the horse.

Abby (00:12:130: 

That’d be enough for me, the horse, and then you go away.

But so. And you know, some, so it’s for you, you didn’t get to ha. No, who you were, you know, that’s just out in, was out there for God, right? That’s, you know, because of this weird society we live in and out monkey brains have like different is scary. I don’t understand, what a time to be born in that way.

Do you think that you chose that life as a soul? Like, do you think that, you know, for who you are and all that you’ve experienced. Do you think that you chose that life, where you were a child of mixed-race parents in the sixties where it was barely legal?

Lisa (00:13:07): 

I did choose that. I have determined in my life that I have chosen a journey of

strength, honestly. And not even about standing up for the underdog because I was the underdog for many years of my life and to, and don’t get me wrong. I had a core group of friends that would back me up. It didn’t matter. They didn’t see any different cities and see anything wrong. And these are the people that a lot of my strength came from because of course, I was probably head and shoulders shorter than everybody in my entire school.

I was also a year younger than everyone in my class. I started school when I was five. And so not only was I the shortest and the youngest, but I was also the weirdest. And I began to understand from an early age that it doesn’t matter what other people think of. You. What matters is how you think of yourself.

And you also have to remember that my family taught me a lot of this because my great-grandparents are Japanese. And during the war, the entire family of course was moved because North America was at war against the Japanese. So they moved everybody inland. There’s a whole story behind that, that I’m not going to share here today.

Cause it’s a long story and I learned very young for my great-grandparents to be resilient. And the other thing I learned is to stand up for yourself, but be aware of which sword you want to die on. And also about forgiveness they taught me very young about forgiveness and how if we carry that anger with us our entire life, then we’ve given away our power.

Abby (00:15:21): 

You’ve just shared so many juicy nuggets that I want to embed.

So, you come from a long line of strong ancestors, who’ve overcome challenges and come through the other side and learned a lot from that because it’s all how we respond to it. And you can let it knock you down or stand stronger. And, you know, and you mentioned that it’s not about what people think it’s about, what you think of yourself.

And that’s, you know, it’s a simple, but very profound statement, you know, when it comes to embodying that because it’s so much of what we think people think of us. That’s what prevents us from doing so much in life and you know, in what we want to do and feel called to do. And For you, is there, what was it for you that enabled you to put that focus on what I think of myself or like really bringing that inside to see it that way and to live that life?

Lisa (00:16:31): 

I honestly feel because there were so many people that saw quotation marks, what was wrong with me? When I was younger at that time, I had to reach inside and see what was right with me because so many people, and of course, we understand children will share what their parents say. Their children they’re six years old, seven years old, and eight years old.

They don’t, they can’t put this stuff together. So they’re sharing what their parents are saying. And At that time in my life, I came to understand that it didn’t matter what I would do, what I would say, how smart I was, how athletic I was, or how kind I was. People would always see me as being different or strange or weird.

And I had two choices. I could come to terms with that. And build on the strength of my individuality, or I could sink into that and become that person that they saw, the person that was worthless and was different and wasn’t going to go anywhere and we have the same opportunities. And so at a very young age, I had to make a decision.

Am I going to embrace my inner power and go forward and strength, which is what I did. I spent a lot of time in the principal’s office fighting. My brother took a different road. He chose to internalize and then go home and talk to mom and dad about it. I didn’t, I faced everybody down on the playground for me.

It was like, this is how it’s going. And I’m facing you down. This is how. But I felt that at a young age, I had to make the choice, whether I was going to embrace who I am, who I truly am, and what I look like or not. 

Abby (00:18:480: 

I think that’s like, that’s the pivotal moment. It’s the choice. And I, you know, those, all those challenges, it’s like I talk to people when I’m working with them about, you know, all the stories of not being worthy.

Good enough, all those, you know, those things that show up, I kind of use the analogy of they’re like the bully on the playground that is pushing you and it’s your choice to stand up. And in that moment and body, the strength, and that’s the gift that those bullies give to you is to help you step into. 

Lisa (00:19:22): 

And it’s interesting too when we find out that the bully is ourselves. Yeah. It’s kind of a life-impacting moment. So say more about that, for example, did you go ahead? How did I know, please ask the question. 

Abby (00:19:45): 

How did you wrangle the inner bully? Are slowing down the inner bully. 

Lisa (00:19:52): 

I stare down the interrelate. It’s interesting because as we stare down the beliefs that are our physical bullies that are in our presence, we need to be very conscious and cautious that we don’t become the bully.

And for myself is when. And of course, this is now in my teenage years when I knew everything. Absolutely. Of course, I had it down, pat. I knew what was going on at that time. I had to do some soul reflection because I became that person that I was standing up against for so long. And it was detrimental to my growth.

And my understanding of myself because I started to become that person. And we all talk about, well, when we look in the mirror, what do we see? I invite people to look into your soul and what do you see? Bypass the mirror and look right into your soul. And at that time, I’ll tell you why my soul wasn’t very happy with myself.

And I’m great at having conversations with myself, me and myself, sit down and have conversations all the time. Sometimes they’re pretty epic and sometimes they’re fairly ridiculous, but I did, I had that conversation with myself and it was, is this who you are? Is this, who is this? Who are you? Is this person that you’re presenting to the world right now, is that who you are.

And at that moment, Say no. And then I have to decide. Sorry. Have to decide again now, am I going to dislike myself? Because I just realized I became everything that I have. I have fought against my entire growing-up time. Or are you going to say, oh my goodness? I have to really start discovering who I am again and come back to that person.

And of course, we always have choices, right? We always are presented with a choice. We can go left or right up or down. And we choose at that moment where we want to go. And at one point in my life, I chose to numb all of my gifts and my pain per se, through substance. And I told myself another wonderful story.

And it was a great story. I mean, it had all the bells and whistles. It could have been a movie in itself. We could have been great. I would have been famous, but when I came out the other side, I realized the depth of mistrust I had of myself. And the depth of almost despair at some points. And I really, I took myself by the hand and said, get your poop in a group. This is not who you are. And I started to really work on myself again and come back to that place of understanding. Believing in who I am and what I had to offer, embracing the gifts I have, and realizing that I was bullying myself because I was, I had allowed part of myself to withdraw because I was so afraid of what my other self at that time was presenting to the world.

And so I had to,  I had to come to this. And I did and it was profound. And I’m thankful I did. 

Abby (00:24:05): 

I’m thankful. You did too.

Lisa (00:24:06): 

Thank you. So I think it’s important that we have that understanding of ourselves.

Abby (00:24:13): 

A hundred percent when you came to that decision, was there fear still there, or did the decision affect that?

Lisa (00:24:22): 

One of the awesome things that my mother has taught me in my life is when you come to a decision, do it, whatever the decision is, do it. And one of the interesting things I’ve heard as well as don’t bleed patients. And at that time I was the patient as well as the healer. And so I decided at that moment where I was going to shift and how that was going to happen, knowing that it was not going to be overnight, but embracing the journey I was now going to be on.

And I wasn’t going to bleed for the person that I was. And I gave thanks to that person because, at that time of my life, it taught me a lot of stuff. I learned a lot of things during that time of my life. And as I reflect on it and I have reflected on it, I feel that was a journey I needed to go on.

I needed to experience all of the stuff that I experienced at that time. And then I had to experience the way back because I feel if you have experienced something and to bring yourself back from that, It’s hard to sit in a community with people who are going through that. If you do not understand how real that struggle is find who you are and come back.

Abby (00:26:00): 

So much, yes. To what you just said. So, so much. Yeah. It’s the hero’s journey that Joseph Campbell’s Campbell talks about, where we go out onto this journey. It’s like a circle. You start at your village and then you go out and you go through all these trials and tribulations and you, you, you have all these discoveries and realizations.

And then as you come through the other side of that, you bring it back to your people so that they can then. You know, heal from that journey too. And I just, you know, as a healer, I feel like so many of us go on that journey of healing, this stuff inside of us. And then. Soon after I find a way people with very similar problems start showing up.

Yes. Oh yeah. Okay. I know how to help you with this now. 

Lisa (00:26:48):

And it’s interesting though, because, and you’ve probably experienced it too. And your journey is that these people start to show up and then you begin to have other experiences. And that’s of course because now we’re opening the avenue for more learning for ourselves, for us to help more people.

Who is in a different stage of their growth? And sometimes it’s the healers that come to us because there’s the understanding that even as healers, sometimes we can’t do it on our own. 

Abby (00:27:24): 

I don’t think any of us are mento and, you know, I am embracing more and more these days, and I feel like such a good thing to have.

Cause you know, you give so much doing this work to allow yourself to receive and fill back up, fill up your cup. It’s so huge. 

Lisa (00:27:43): 

And it’s interesting. I had a conversation with somebody about something comparable. Speaking about receiving, because I said to them, do you accept a compliment or do you receive it?

They say I don’t understand. I said, so somebody says to you, Abigail, you’re beautiful today. You’re looking, you’re glowing. And so do you say, yeah. Thanks. Accepting. Or do you receive it into your heart and say, oh wow. Thank you very much.

Abby (00:28:12): 

You can feel it when that happens. I’ve talked to people or I gave them, I think it was your last time.

I, I said, I’ll compliment you and you said I’m receiving that. Thank you. And, oh my goodness. It felt so good to feel you receiving that. It doesn’t happen very often when you give or give each other compliments. 

Lisa (00:28:31): 

And I think that’s important as well when we’re on this journey of even our self-discovery because we never stopped learning.

It’s a process. We never stop growing from our own experiences. But I think learning how to receive whether it be a compliment or the opportunity for rest or growth community, whatever that is, but learning to receive it. 

Abby (00:28:58): 

So how would we? What have you learned about how to receive?

Lisa (00:29:04): 

The first thing I learned was the difference between accepting and receiving. I found accepting is very surface, so we can say yes, I accept your gift. Thank you. All right. Or you can receive that gift and feel it in your heart space. That wow. This person went out of their way to either create or purchase or whatever this for me.

And I’m going to receive this into my heart and understand how that feels because it’s important when somebody makes a gesture towards us, whether it be a person, a community. It doesn’t matter that we receive it in a way that is going to sound a little egotistical, but you must receive it in a way that feels good to you. And when we feel good, we can make the gifter feel about it. Can I show you?

Abby (00:30:24): 

Absolutely. And it feels so good when someone else, really truly receives it, and to be that one who gets to give in that moment, it feels so good. And I think it’s interesting. You mentioned this is going to sound a little egotistical because I think we’ve been taught that, you know, it’s like this differentiation between like I’m worthy of receiving.

Thank you. Versus. Oh, I’m going to get a big hat and all this and that. It’s like, this is very different. Like, I feel it’s the ego that says, no, I can’t, I’m not worthy of the ego makes us better or worse. As long as I’m not thinking I’m better than anybody else. I’m not being selfish. I’m not being selfish. I’m just being in the heart space like you mentioned.

Lisa (00:31:05): 

And I think this is where the confusion comes in with receiving. I have to come to this realization on my own time that it’s not from ego when you receive into your heart space. 

Abby (00:31:22): 

I feel like it also kind of ties back to, The bullies on the playground. You know, the stories that we hear, it’s like, you have to tell the bullies, like, no, you are worthy of receiving this.

I am worthy of receiving this at this moment. I know for me anyway, I’ve been through a place where it felt scary, you know, to do that. To be complimented and it feels uncomfortable. It’s like, I don’t know what to say now. Awkward robot hands. And

 Lisa (00:32:00): 

I’m not, I’m not trained to how to engage in this social situation, but I think what you said

Abby (00:32:09): 

That’s great guidance, you know, it’s just, just to be able to breathe into your heart and just feel it there. And then that quiets the mind and it gets you into that place where we do give and receive is right in that heart space. And, because otherwise that energy just kind of bounces off and gets wasted. Like it wants to go into you and nourish you as a gift from somebody else. So it’s beautiful to let that be nourished. And you know, when I work with people, when they’re open and ready to do it. T to make those shifts. It feels so good for us both.

And when they’re not, it’s like, okay, we’re both getting tired now. We’ll come back to that another time. So it’s energy that wants to flow and move and come through each of us. 

Lisa (00:32:53): 

So let’s talk about giving them to people. And again, when we work out outside of. When we work in ego, we go, oh, I’m going to give them this gift.

And they’re going to love it. We have put an attachment to an outcome and expectation when you give from that place of love. And HeartSpace, it’s so different. When you give a compliment to somebody and, and it’s always interesting because there are shows out there that you, you watch people giving people compliments and you, and you can tell they’re, they’re a shallow compliment because the giver of the compliment is not coming from a place of, of love?

Abby (00:33:46): 

Yeah, understanding it can be, I feel like it can be almost like a sense of obligation or like you mentioned attachment.

Lisa (00:33:55): 

Or they’re expecting something in return. And when you give to give only whether that be a compliment, a gift, it doesn’t matter. Then it changes the whole dynamic of how you are as the giver.

Release any attachment to how it’s received? 

Abby (00:34:22): 

I think attachment is such a big word there, and that carries over to giving it carries over so much. I remember there was a point when I realized that the people in my life, my friends, are not obliged to do anything for me to show up in any particular way, you know, and however, they show up just fine.

There’s no requirement for the agreement upon this friendship. And, you know, it’s like my past self used to feel resentful when I want to see them more. Why aren’t they showing up story, story, story, story? And it’s like, that’s where they are. And just let that be. And then there’s such a release. Like a liberating release from letting go of that. Like, I can viscerally feel it in my body as I talk about it as like, oh, I don’t need anything from anybody. That’s such a great thing. A great place to be, what a beautiful feeling. And now we can just be friends and enjoy each other without any expectations of what that should mean.

Lisa (00:35:28): 

Yeah. I think that’s important. Right. So when we talk about giving and receiving. And there are people out there that 100% are givers. Give, give, give, give. And there are people out there that are receivers. And then when you come from a heart space, that whole dynamic changes because then you understand the flow of giving and receiving.

Abby (00:35:57): 

Okay. And so with that flow of giving and receiving. What does that feel like once you come into that heart space?

Lisa (00:36:09): 

We have an understanding of, of course, and everybody says what you put out there, you receive in return. That is so very true. If you are a person that is kind and caring and open to give and receive in its purest form.

Then you will find that the dynamic of relationships in your life starts to change the dynamic of the opportunities that come your way, start to change because you have released the expectation, the attachment, the potential outcome. And you’re allowing things to inflow. So in and out like that, like the tides, when you come from a place of giving for personal gain, you may find the people around you, you may not be Pilic people, you can fully trust because they are also out there looking for what they can personally gain.

Abby (00:37:21): 

Yeah. And it’s like, I think of it as energy. It’s like, Private the attachment to what I can get. I’m holding onto something that I need to try to fill myself somehow. Maybe there, maybe I don’t feel like I’m enough or I have enough or there is enough and I’m not letting myself be nourished with that feeling.

It’s just like a kind of a clasping down on the heart. And it feels like to allow yourself to receive and to give heart has to kind of open up. And that flow can come through, like the inhale on the exhale. I think it’s so interesting as you talk about this because giving and receiving in the context of gifts that we give to each other, and also in the context of the broader perspective of nature, everything in nature gives and receives exactly as much as, as needed.

And, you know, humans get on these. Stories of not having enough. And you’re going to have, you know, multibillionaires who are still tightly clasping onto what they have trying to find more. And they’re not going to find it outside of them. 

 Lisa (00:38:33): 

Yes. To come from another place, you have a story we tell. And it’s interesting because when we talk about nature and being in nature, so many people say, oh, I’m going to go for a hike because I need to get out in nature.

And I think to myself at that moment, do you realize that nature gives of itself free? Without any expectation from you? None. Zero. 

Abby (00:39:00): 

That’s why it feels so good to be there. It’s like I’m in the forest and I, it’s not judging me, judging myself less. Just being here. 

Lisa (00:39:07): 

I don’t care that I’m wearing pink shorts and a bright green dot.

Abby (00:39:12): 

Trees don’t care. being here. The tree is just being the tree and those had to be, and it’s like, oh, it’s reminded me how to be, to just being around that energy.

Lisa (00:39:21): 

Yeah. And for us to withhold judgment of ourselves, because we are old men, we can judge ourselves like nobody’s business, even, even the best of us as if they were the ones of us that are continuing to do this.

Discovery of who we are and understanding our best. There are even times where we will hold ourselves in judgment and we do, we will, and we can come back from that with a new perspective of who we are as well. At that moment, I usually ask myself questions when I am in that place. Who have I been talking to?

And what have they been saying? Because sometimes a comment from somebody can bring back a memory where you were made to believe that you were lesser than if it’s a judgment. I was watching a show that brought something to my forefront that I had not been aware of before? And I, I start to ask myself questions at the moment what was happening right before I fell into that mindset. At that moment. 

Abby (00:40:39): 

Yeah. And it’s, I, a hundred percent love that questioning process. Because it’s falling into the mindset and also the mindset kind of falling into us. Like there’s this energy and the collective of, you know, Feeling unworthy didn’t start when I experienced it. It’s these things I got passed around, passed down.

As I kind of see it, coming to earth is like we’re collect we’re gradually in our way at our own pace, releasing these judgments, releasing these stories by transforming them with our awareness and kind of helping each other to do that as we’re ready. But none of them. Are those stories, they just kind of show up and I went to this ecstatic dance and she said, just observe your judgments.

And it had been one minute, I was like, oh my God. I think there were a hundred of them. My mind does that so much. And I, you know, I hadn’t realized the level at which that pattern existed. You know, I was talking to other people and they’re like, oh yeah, me too. It was like, it’s just becoming conscious of them and asking yourself these questions of what I was around.

Was it, you know, where did that come in? That’s so helpful. Cause it’s, I feel like it helps to create that sense of like, I am not that judgmental and it’s easier to let it go from that place. 

Lisa (00:41:56): 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, and, and speaking of judgment because I’m going to segue into the new topic now because. We just had the full moon in Pisces.

Abby (00:42:08): 

Yeah. I want to ask you about that. Cause you know, astrology stuff, that’s not my forte. I want to know all about it. 

Lisa (00:42:13): 

So it’s always interesting to me because people have different energies in the Zodiac sign, field, different energies around the new and full moons. And, I’m a Piscean. And so when there’s a full moon in Pisces, I. Kinda love to dance with the devil as it were because this is seeing beyond the illusion and understanding the perception of the devil that society holds may not be entire. 

Abby (00:42:53): 

Ooh, I love this case. So tell me more.

Lisa (00:42:59): 

So Pisces is connected to the moon. The moon is about illusion and tides, flow, and spiritual connection. And, so many things to do with the Ethereum realm and. What’s wonderful for me is when, when there’s a full moon in Pisces, everything for me is exemplified. It’s just, everything is stronger.

Intuition is stronger, and I see B feel taste here so much better. And, It’s also about helping you see through your illusion, helping you see through your own stories, the signs that are more grounded. So for instance, the tourists, struggle with this moon because everything that they can resonate with is typically more grounded understandings and beliefs.

And sometimes it’s hard for them to see into that space of illusion. And sometimes it’s hard for an earth sign to understand that sometimes the illusion is of our own making. So when we go into the full moon in Pisces, This pulls the veil back. It doesn’t even string it back slowly. It is ripping the veil right off and saying, okay, here, this is what you get.

You can choose to be in flow and allow this to happen, or you can try and fight it. And then your experience on the moon is probably not going to be ideal. The Pisces moon is so much about fat, the flow, and the tides, and allowing, and being in your spirituality and your gifts and seeing past the facade of who sometimes you present you are.

And it is a struggle sometimes for us to look in the mirror and go, oh, that’s who I am. Oh, I didn’t, I didn’t realize I was who I was. And this is a perfect time too. Because of the way that, sorry, go ahead.

Abby (00:45:34): 

No, I think that’s so interesting because, when I met you, I met you and Rona together.

And one of the first things you did was like, okay, let’s calculate your sun moon. And Ascending. It’s like, why I haven’t heard of the other two. I thought I was just a tourist. Like, that’s just what we do. Right. And so we did the ascending and that’s, that was Gemini, which was very different. Yeah. Or sign.

And then there’s the sun, which is so I think, and maybe I’ll have you describe it, but you had mentioned that one was how you can just show up intuitively and one is how you present yourself to the world. 

Lisa (00:46:10): 

So your, your sign, your sun sign is who you are. Okay. Your moon sign is how you show up emotionally.

So, I have a Capricorn moon, so for me emotionally, I see things in a very structured manner, so I can compartmentalize my emotions and deal with each emotion in that way. So basically if I’m feeling sad, I can take, oh, I’m sad. I’m going to deconstruct that because I’m a Capricorn. I’m going to make a list as to why I’m feeling sad and then determine, is this mine?

Am I feeling the emotions of somebody else that is near to me? Or am I feeling sad? So for a Capricorn moon, this is very much about, I need to deconstruct and figure this out. And that’s how I deal with my emotions. Your ascending sign is how other people see you. So I have a Libra ascending, and a lot of people see me as the peacekeeper, the mediator, the one who can see and listen to all of the arguments and come together and bring everybody into the center and go, okay, let’s figure this out together. So that’s how I present an ascending sign you’re ascending sign is Gemini. 

Abby (00:47:40): 

Yeah, I believe no. I, my moon is Gemini and I think my ascendant is Leo. Okay. It’s a weird mishmash. 

Lisa (00:47:48): 

It is. So Gemini is your moon sign, which is interesting because Gemini is the twins? This is also them. So w Gemini is really interesting because they can do a couple of things.

As your moon sign, you can see two sides. So if somebody is angry, you can see their anger and understand it. And on the other side, you can go, well, why are you so angry?

Abby (00:48:14): 

It’s a dance that I often do, like, oh, I get you. And then five minutes later. Oh man, come on. Nobody. I understand. That’s right.

Lisa (00:48:26): 

And so again, because there’s two of them, we talk about balance. So the light and the dark and that’s a Gemini and I will have an understanding side and then a not-so-understanding side and that’s okay. Because it helps you understand. In the moment where people’s emotions are coming from because you can look at it from both sides.

Whereas with me, if you’re crying on my doorstep, I’m sorry, I’m going to get you a cup of tea and a blanket, and I’m going to put you on the couch and then I’m going to deconstruct why you’re so sad, 

Abby (00:49:02): 

Which is interesting. And I love how you mentioned that, like the deconstruction of the emotion. I think that’s so fascinating because for me, I, I S I F it’s such a fluid thing.

Cause like being a tourist as well, sometimes those two battles were like. I want things to be structured today is the day I’m doing this. Oh. But emotions have shown up. What do we do, but, you know, if I address the emotions, it’s very much like a fluid feeling dance? So I would never create a list of like, what’s going on.

I think it’s brilliant that you do, but knowing my energy, I would just be like, I’m just going to flow around that and move the energy and just look at them, like, pick that little ball of energy and look at it closely. And then, oh, okay. I can flip that off. That’s interesting. Yeah. Interesting. So when you mentioned that this is a time of dancing with perceptions, you have a devil.

I want to talk more about that. 

Lisa (00:50:00): 

The interesting thing that I found is, and I’m going to talk to you about the taro for just a second, the devil card in traditional terrorists, kind of frightening, you know, he’s got horns. Kind of got all this fire and brimstone stuff going on around him in a deck that I use, the devil is very different.

He is a young man with long black flowing hair and he has his hand out with strings attached to his hand and the sole attached to the strings. So it’s about manipulation. So when I say that I dance with the devil, I look at my own. Construction of self and ask me the questions, where am I manipulating myself?

And where am I being manipulated? So it gives me time because now I have a chance and the Pisces moon for me to come into this place that is so connected to our spiritual side. That I can find the devil within me easier and sit down and have a conversation about what’s this manipulation about what’s going on here.

What are the stories that you’re having me tell myself how much of it is true and how much of it is a story? And so the devil can be what’s manipulating. By ourselves, our self-manipulation. So when we can dance with the devil, we shake off anything that is binding us to this story. He’s too busy dancing to have control over our thoughts and feelings to be able to move with. Yeah. And not hide from. Or ignore exactly your way. Yeah.  And it’s also helping you release the fear of what that is to you.

Abby (00:52:20): 

Someone had mentioned to me that fear is always an illusion and I feel like, unless you’re running from a saber tooth tiger then. It’s like the instinctual fear of like, no, don’t go down that alley because my gut says not to. And then there’s the fear of like, oh, what might happen? You know, and, and all of these scenarios, if I do this if I do that, and that’s that, that piece that holds us back. So when we think of dancing with the devil.

Lisa (00:52:50): 

A friend of mine posted on Facebook, this picture of this, a roadway that was lined with trees, it was very dark and spooky.

She said, would you, would you go down here? And I was like, heck yeah. I go down there because there’s something to learn. And I was the only one everyone else was like, I wouldn’t go to anyway. And I’ve got really, and there’s fear, fear of the unknown, fear of what isn’t there. And we talk about light. We see the light shining at first, but then there’s no light. I can’t see the light. Perhaps you are.

Abby (00:53:34): 

Yeah. So if someone is in that place of fear, what would you say to them to step into that part of themself? That is the light. Okay. 

Lisa (00:53:48): 

It’s interesting. Because the first thing that came to my mind when you said that took my hand. Oh, wow.

Abby (00:53:57): 

I have just whole body tingles. As you say that, you know what a beautiful thing that’s really what it’s all about. You don’t have to do it alone. 

Lisa (00:54:07): 

Yeah. You don’t have to do it alone.

And I think we come into this mindset that we feel that we cannot show any buddy or broken bits.

Abby (00:54:19): 

Yeah. I don’t know why we got that as a society that we’re not even supposed to have problems, but there were all butterflies and bunnies here.  I’m glad that, you know, I think that’s booze releasing or as people become more and more open talking about mental health and all different things. Yeah. It becomes harder to hide the broken bits when we have things like a pandemic and we’re stuck with ourselves so much more than we may be used to be. So that’s a gift in that too. Thank you for sharing all this. And I think that’s a great note to wrap up on is, you know, walking with them. So if someone would like your hands. How can they reach out to you? 

Abby (00:55:10):

They can find me on my website, which is, Or you can email me at,  on Facebook, and Instagram, LisaWongcreatingbalance. 

Abby (00:55:26): 

Yeah. Thank you. And I’ve worked with Lisa and she’s phenomenal and she’s helped me so much with some deep past life stuff.

And You know how to bring a lot of things into alignment and clarity. And I’m all about taking, you know, the hand of someone who is filled with light and able to guide me through. So thank you for doing this work for people and thank you for making those decisions to stand in your strength and, you know, continue to do that one step forward at a time.

Lisa (00:56:00): 

So thank you, Lisa, for being here, and thank you for having me, Abigail. That was an honor.

Abby (00:56:06): 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the mindbodyfree podcast. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Lisa as much as I did. She’s such a gift in this world and she’s so grounded and calm and fun and joyful all at the same time.

And My mentor program is opening up soon. So if you feel like you have gifts that you want to awaken and remember and share with the world, if you want to learn tools to let go of anything that hasn’t been serving you, that you can integrate into your daily life, if you want to learn how to visit. And come into a place of focus, clarity, and purpose, and know your destination with absolute clarity and feel that resonance and your whole body and know the steps that you can take to get there and clear your path forward.

If you want to save a sacred container, a community of support, and weakly consistent calls to support you and amazing, incredible transformation, then the mentorship program might be right for you. We’ve had so many changes with people who come to this program. We’ve had people change their careers, their cities, their countries, their relationships.

It is a place for people to truly transform, to feel held and safe and seen and supported enough to let go of the things that were distracting so they can become crystal clear on who they are, how they can heal, and what they’re meant to be doing in this world. And so if that sounds like something right for you, then go to and book a free discovery.

So you can learn more about the program and we can see if this is the right fit for you. And you can also reach me on Facebook and Instagram @yourmindbodyfree. Thank you so much for listening and talking soon.


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