00:00:02 – 00:00:28

Abigail: Hello and welcome. I’m speaking today with Dr. Owen Schwartz. He is a holistic medical doctor specializing in psychotherapy, soul journeys, and transformative energy healing. I’m so excited to introduce him because he’s actually a local Calgary doctor that I’ve been fortunate enough to be working with lately, and it’s just the most interesting shifts happen really quickly as we we talk together. So thank you for being here, Owen.

00:00:28 – 00:00:32

Owen: Thank you for doing this, for the people and for everything. Wonderful.

00:00:32 – 00:00:41

Abigail: Oh, absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you. Can you tell me a little bit about what’s your story? So kind of how did you get into doing this work?

00:00:41 – 00:01:44

Owen: So my story goes way back when I first was in as a medical student, even I kept dreaming and imagining that there was something greater than a contained office with four walls. It’s like the spirit was flowing in the land, in myself, in my heart. And I said, I’m feeling an emptiness or sterility as much as medicine’s a very technical and practical discipline, you really got to study for it, especially in those days. You were on your own as a family doctor. In those early days, I felt that just didn’t fit me. So very soon after graduation, I embarked on a holistic model, which there was no words for that. But you might say a holistic model and look for influencers like I looked for people. That would be examples of that because I didn’t quite understand it all at the time, came in gradual.

00:01:44 – 00:01:53

Abigail: When you were doing it, there wasn’t a lot. It wasn’t as popular as it is now. You kind of have to figure it out in your own. So who did you look for at the time that helped inspire you?

00:01:54 – 00:02:00

Owen: Women, not intuitive people, actually.

00:02:00 – 00:03:28

Abigail: You know, in the early days it was a matter of also there was a league called the Lesch League at that time of of breastfeeding mothers, and they understood a holistic way of preparing for their childbirth and the childbirth birth itself and a kind of a gentle childbirth. And they and they also were interested in nutrition and stress. So they were like one of the first models I had for prevention. I also read the white paper that was in way back written way back. It was the white paper on health. Forget the technical name, and it basically stated that medicine is not really dealing with prevention. And I thought, wow, it would be exciting to focus on prevention with those kind of backgrounds. When when I went to the university and taught family medicine at McMasters, I really was pushing for prevention and midwives and really empowering the whole sense of human spirit and women. Did my original essay at Dalhousie. This is before I went to Mac. I did my original work thesis in my undergraduate or postgraduate. I did it on stress and what happens to human beings. So that was the beginning.

00:03:29 – 00:03:29

Owen: Wow.

00:03:30 – 00:04:00

Abigail: And I think it’s so interesting that you kind of immediately, intuitively felt like, okay, here’s Western medicine, but there’s these four walls, as you described it, that’s like very kind of rigid, but you were drawn to learn in a way that it sounds like they weren’t, you know, the traditional system wasn’t teaching it. So when you went on to do your, your thesis in stress and the effects of that, what did you find from that?

00:04:00 – 00:05:05

Owen: Basically, I found we were able to prove it scientifically, so to speak, that stress had a big impact on health particularly, and it was a primitive response measure of stress. It was basically just measuring life events. But if you had a life event that was within a couple of if you followed the person for a couple of years, they’d have definitely more health issues, diseases and so on. And that could be quantified in a family practice. So that was a gross measure. At the same time as I was doing that, I got really interested in meditation. I saw people, what are they doing? So I had to find this is, you know, in my 20s, I said, wow. And as I learned about meditation and I said, what a powerful way of influencing people where they could go into their inner life and find something and also pursue something beyond their ego, beyond themselves. Spirit.

00:05:07 – 00:05:11

Abigail: What did that lead to for you? Is that what you found when your meditations.

00:05:12 – 00:06:08

Owen: Led me in one direction? In that meditation is really a technique. A meditation is a kind of a technique and prayer combined. So if you don’t understand that, you have to be still with your body and you haven’t calmed your nervous system enough, you can’t really meditate. So the how to became very useful. Just how do you do that? Or you look at your third eye at center. So that became useful. Then I just went deeper and deeper into it. And then when I traveled to California and various places, I got all kinds of influences on spirit and healing and various levels, astral and soul healing. And I said, wow, I wonder how you incorporate all this. Well, you couldn’t do it with very easily within a framework of medicine. It just wasn’t open. Like it’s much more open now.

00:06:09 – 00:06:10

Abigail: Yeah. Thank God.

00:06:10 – 00:06:11

Owen: Anyway.

00:06:13 – 00:06:19

Abigail: So is that what you incorporate now elements of that in the work that you do.

00:06:20 – 00:07:28

Owen: So now it’s the focus is very much on learning, learning to develop your own empowerment and your connection to spirit. Like if you think of medicine now they’ve included everybody’s including body, mind and, you know, basic things, even mindfulness. But they’re not really including the the true sense of spiritual heart and what that means. And that just research was from the Duke University and other places have proven to be extremely important in health. And also adding to this, when we think of health, that’s not the ultimate goal, because no matter what, we die. So it’s good to be healthy. But you know, you can’t beat Father Time. So what do you do in all life? What do you do to develop meaning? Your destiny? Spirituality? How do you connect to find that inner being and to expand that, to experience?

00:07:28 – 00:08:09

Abigail: That’s I love that. Yeah. It’s so true. And it’s it’s really obvious and funny when you frame it that way. Like we are all going to die. So if health is the ultimate goal, like that’s, that’s a temporary thing that we get to have. You know, it’s fleeting. So I think it’s one of those things that because a lot of people don’t know how to look beyond. On that, find that sense of deeper fulfillment or enlightenment. I wonder if that’s part of why, as a society, we often seem to like try not to look at death. You know, we try to like, kind of forget about it, because the ego is this fear of death, because the ego doesn’t understand how the soul continues on.

00:08:09 – 00:08:26

Owen: That’s right. And of course, it’s, you know, it’s popular too. So a lot of people would believe we just die. That’s not borne out by the inner science of the soul, thousands of years of all traditions, especially yoga. But that’s another story.

00:08:26 – 00:08:30

Abigail: Yeah, absolutely. The everlasting part of us.

00:08:31 – 00:08:31

Owen: Yes.

00:08:32 – 00:08:49

Abigail: No talking about that. Not only is it everlasting, but the soul contains the perfect template for the mind and body. We can live, alter and transmute ourselves if we can. Truly, over time, it takes time, listen and go inwards.

00:08:49 – 00:09:04

Owen: 100%. I couldn’t agree more and I like I love that you talked about, you know, empowerment and connection to spirit being a big part of what you do. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that looks like? So what is the empowerment piece?

00:09:04 – 00:10:26

Abigail: It has multiple levels. I don’t know if I can even capture it all now. One of the typical things that people do or I do it too, we become quite self-critical. We haven’t done enough. Here’s where we’re at. And when you look at the soul, you have an infinitely long journey. And. What’s stated really is that spirit doesn’t care that you goofed in the past. It’s going to do now. So self acceptance instead of constantly rejecting putting yourself down. I’m not good enough. This I’m not quite ready. And so people procrastinate. Hold off instead of saying spirit just wants love. Don’t have to be ready for anything except to open my heart. Instead, people spend years in procrastination and diddling instead of really advancing forward boldly with the soul. And the soul’s the source of that power. It’s automatic. It’s there. It’s the strength in all aspects of your character, quality of life, the way you express in the world. And of course, it’s gradual, might take lifetimes, but you have the greatest aid within you 100%.

00:10:26 – 00:11:11

Owen: I love that spirit doesn’t care that you goofed in the past. It’s so good. It’s like we judge ourselves. Part of that connection with spirit that you mentioned. It takes time, maybe lifetimes, which I fully agree with. I think it’s those judgments that we put on ourselves that begin to sever that connection with our own soul or with spirit like that of like, I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough. I’m not deserving all of these things because of what I did in the past or in other lifetimes, even. I can’t be whole now, but it’s like spirit, universe, source, whatever you want to call it. It is a part of us, and it wants us to be connected with it. Because why wouldn’t you want to heal a part of yourself? So it’s like that self judgment is just not really serving anyone.

00:11:12 – 00:11:12

Abigail: Yeah.

00:11:12 – 00:11:45

Owen: And that’s a wonderful point. That spirit wants us. Spirit is so you might say that spirit universe, however you want to say God is transpersonal, it’s cosmic. It’s like in everyone it’s massive. You can’t even begin to fathom it. But you might say God’s Spirit, the universe is personal and knows you, and you can have a direct personal connection. That to me was another fundamental statement or learning.

00:11:46 – 00:12:07

Abigail: Yeah, absolutely. It’s no one can really tell you what your relationship should look like. It is such a like I feel it’s a personal sense of discovery. It’s like as you go into self discovery, you go into discovery of life and energy and consciousness. Yeah. So what does it look like when you help people connect to their spirit?

00:12:08 – 00:13:58

Owen: One of the aspects is understanding what are the qualities of the soul brains. You might say that one obvious one is. Absolute love, unconditional love, which is largely unavailable in this world. In a practical way, we’re going to have some conditions. It would be very people say love unconditionally, but if they examine it, but they can come close. But the soul is so love. Nobody is joy or happiness or bubbling bliss or. And it doesn’t mean it’s there and it doesn’t have to be there in you all the time. You just know that you’ve got a resource that you can reach into for that. So we’ve got love and joy, and then you also got. Let’s see what would be the next one. It would be resilience and endurance because the soul doesn’t die. It can endure. And you can bring those qualities in because you might have a difficult time and then you just bring in them. And peace, of course, is essential. So you bring in this peace and then you might say empowerment or strength or resilience. That’s a quality the soul has and you can draw from that. And then wisdom and intuition. Intuition is one of the ways of really avoiding suffering. Because of course if we don’t use wisdom or a higher intelligence, we can keep making mistakes that cost us karmically. So there is karma and there are certain things that are inevitable. We’re going to meet challenges, but how you handle them can depend on your own resources. And one way of developing that wisdom is to get to know your soul.

00:13:59 – 00:14:39

Abigail: I love that. I do, I do hot yoga and doing it to help treat chronic health conditions that have been talking with you about. And so when I don’t go for a long time, I can start feeling more drained and worn down. But when I’m in yoga and I’m sweating and I’m doing these flows, it’s like I activate this warrior spirit inside of me and it’s like I’m just focused and I just like, I am the warrior. And it’s just so clear that in the when I’m in that frequency that everything can be solved, that I’m much stronger than any challenge I’m facing. And it’s those moments that really feels like I’m connecting with that aspect of my soul, the aspect that I need in that moment.

00:14:40 – 00:14:40

Owen: Love it.

00:14:40 – 00:16:02

Abigail: And then if we think of one aspect of the soul you can get directly in meditation is the soul comes through energy or or chee or prana. That energy is available to us. We can draw in that not just energy, but intelligent energy. So the soul has no problem healing anybody. It might take time, it might resistance. It may not work simply, but the soul can fix what the doctors and herbalists and anybody else can’t. On the physical level, even the emotional level, there’s it’s the spiritual adjustments that can happen. And if you look at all the great healing traditions that are often channeled, God or spirit, because they’re channeling the pure light into those cells that need readjusting so you can get it directly through. Meditation, Prana qigong. But it’s not obvious because you have to go deep to catch it. And especially a chronic disease. It’s very complex. You have to approach it. It’s very rare that you get a sudden change, but gradually, gradually you can make an impact. That’s power. That’s empowerment. But not only for health, for your life, for relationship, for your career.

00:16:03 – 00:17:01

Owen: Absolutely. Like as I’ve been healing, like I’ve now discovered as Lyme, as I’ve been healing, that like I had to go to yoga, it was too tired to do anything besides lie there for our for the first two months. And I was just continually crying and doing inner child healing and path life healing. There was so much built up stuff to work on. It took some time, like something gets to that point. There’s a lot of layers to clear and let go of, but I found out that I’ve been letting go of so much of it and kept the intention. I think what you said was endurance and like resilience and persistence. It was on my part. Then more opportunities started opening up, more other opportunities for physical support. I find, like when the soul’s aligned, like you said, like there’s so much energy that can come from that, so much healing. And then also it kind of opens up. I found it anyway. These potentials for whatever else is needed starts coming into your awareness at that point to.

00:17:02 – 00:17:16

Abigail: Like the word potentials and also like that it’s a process. It may be very difficult at first and might say. There’s a saying. A saint is a sinner that never gave up.

00:17:16 – 00:17:24

Owen: So true, because to sin just means to miss the mark, right? And if you don’t give up on getting the mark.

00:17:24 – 00:17:45

Abigail: Yeah, a sin isn’t to take it literally. Exactly like stated, the sin is more. Yes, that’s well put. It’s. I just wanted to put the same accurately to its words rather than in a gospel interpretation of what sin. Because you can look at good and evil in the soul and understand what good and evil is.

00:17:46 – 00:17:48

Owen: So what is good and evil in the soul?

00:17:48 – 00:18:17

Abigail: What’s stated in yoga is that good is the direction towards spirit, towards your in your spirit and actually evil. It’s not that it’s evil in the usual sense that it’s the direction away through pure materialism in which you separate from your soul, you’re just into your body. In the physical is a degree of negativity because you’re you’re directing yourself away from your source spirit.

00:18:17 – 00:18:18

Owen: That’s interesting.

00:18:18 – 00:18:20

Abigail: That’s the definition.

00:18:20 – 00:18:53

Owen: Yeah. Well, and I think that I believe the translation of sin, the definition is actually to miss the mark. So it’s this idea of like you’re getting colder, you know, you’re not getting closer to like this expansive opening of spirit and enlightenment. You’re getting colder. I mean, there are, I think, other qualities in the world that with duality there is this sort of sense of evil. But as you’ve described it, it definitely feels like a closing down and a separation from like a leaf that separates from this. The source energy of the tree begins to shrivel up.

00:18:53 – 00:19:06

Abigail: Perfect. And wherever you are, it’s okay. You could have had a life of pure materialism and you exclude spirit, but it’s never too late. Wherever you are.

00:19:06 – 00:19:24

Owen: When pure materialism never makes anybody happy, if people who don’t feel like they’re good enough inside can go and get the Lamborghini and the yacht and the mansion and all of the status in the world. But then there’s still it doesn’t feel that void, because that void can’t be filled with stuff that be filled with their own soul and their wholeness.

00:19:24 – 00:19:24

Abigail: That’s right.

00:19:25 – 00:19:30

Owen: When you work with people, how does that work? What does it look like when you’re actually working with people?

00:19:31 – 00:21:21

Abigail: I do have a website describes some of it so called Calgary Therapy md.com. And in working with people, I want to work where they’re at. So people often come with, say, relationship issues. It’s quite common because it’s complex relationships. So then we’d work right there. We’d say, well, and then I don’t have an agenda like how that relationship should go, what should happen? But we always introduce the soul. We’re always introducing the spirit and say, okay, on deep reflection, maybe not now. Maybe go home with it. Where are you? What’s the feeling? What’s the connection? So it can really vary. That’s one area. Some people, they have to get in touch with their feelings because they’ve never really felt in childhood. They weren’t allowed to feel. So that becomes important. But ultimately you want to get beyond your feelings. Feelings are just still on the surface. So once you get in touch with them, that’s fine. How do you challenge beyond the feeling? Because the feelings, the soul has no feeling, only joy. The soul directs without feeling of joy. So it doesn’t mean we ignore our feelings, but we have to go through them. So some people need a journey more into their ego. Others are ready to advance more boldly, and they can bring in the light directly and challenge their life and change their life. Or maybe not just flow with that space. So it’s actually a whole bunch of different discussions. I also do a soul journey, which really makes a big difference as a person gets to experience it directly.

00:21:22 – 00:21:23

Owen: What is a soul journey?

00:21:24 – 00:22:55

Abigail: So a soul journey is it’s quite simple. It could be called a meditation, but the difference is that to a degree I’m helping direct a little bit. So unlike hypnosis, hypnosis is defined usually as you’re connecting to your subconscious mind. That means your mind. It could be from all your lifetimes, but it’s in your consciousness. Subconscious, the soul journey. The soul’s connected to the source, to the superconscious. And so the idea is to bring that soul in, that it’s like a person is broken and they go to a ceremony. It could be a church or mosque, it could be anywhere in that. They get this. It’s just the feeling of that. They get this enlightenment they go through. This could be a ceremony in Peru, but in that they touch something very deep, the pure light of spirit. And they feel that often it’s a figure like an angel. Divine mother is guiding them, and they have that sense of support, and then they can go back through the pain of childhood and different things that have occurred and see it in a completely new dimension where they feel empowered, supported and loved, and then they can literally transform alchemy or change their response. So child that’s been hurt and broken becomes the empowered child and soldier.

00:22:55 – 00:23:12

Owen: So it’s like when they are in that place of super consciousness, things can shift and transform really powerfully and quickly. So a lot of it, it sounds like it’s getting them to that place. Do you have people who are there ready to go, some who are afraid of it.

00:23:12 – 00:24:30

Abigail: Or people may or may not ever fully understand it? It varies. So if somebody doesn’t get it, they don’t get it. There’s not. You can only go so far. Other people are ready to go for it. And then some people need some readiness and sometimes we don’t need to do it. We can just use wisdom and connection and discussion, but it does. It does make it a lot faster because as a soul, you can challenge the elements of the child was crushed in. You know, you talk about the as an example, the inner child work with the child is frozen. They’ve still got the fear within them. Or maybe they’re flying away or flight running away. They’re scared. And that hypervigilance can stay with them where they’re stressed and in all kinds of challenges in life. If you can transform that original early experience, empower the child and bring that forward, the people can feel that power and that transforms itself into their everyday life. And the situations they might face at this time is very needy for a relationship. And they feel this pain and they’re looking for mother or father, something else that’s a filter that affects their choices.

00:24:30 – 00:24:38

Owen: Absolutely. As our couples therapist would say, like we find our spouses so that we can heal our inner child. Basically, find someone who’s going to push all your buttons for you.

00:24:40 – 00:24:40

Abigail: If.

00:24:40 – 00:24:59

Owen: You’ve done enough soul work, especially if you’re connected to your soul, then you could possibly choose a relationship based on the beauty of the soul’s connecting rather than the subconscious work that you have to do. Then a whole other element of service and quality comes into that relationship.

00:24:59 – 00:25:11

Abigail: Absolutely. And I feel like it’s it’s a balance of light and dark, you know, like the yin, like the duality. Because there’s going to be that shadow piece. I mean, I don’t know if I’ve met anyone who doesn’t have.

00:25:11 – 00:25:12

Owen: Some work to do.

00:25:13 – 00:25:49

Abigail: If you do like me, like, how did you do that? Maybe like Byron Katie, although she still does the work every day. She said, actually. But yeah, I mean, I think that’s I don’t think a relationship is like, we’re like, this is going to be work all the time because that’s not fun. You know, there’s so much beauty and lightness and connection to have on that, the light aspect of the soul level. And then to be to be allies in each other’s healing is a beautiful thing. But yeah, I don’t think it sounds fun to be in a relationship that’s pure work. And and as you heal those things, someone’s in a relationship where it’s not. If it’s toxic, then just that’s one to get out.

00:25:49 – 00:25:51

Owen: Yeah, exactly.

00:25:51 – 00:26:03

Abigail: You said it very well that it’s okay to have lots of stuff to work on, and we all do. That’s why we might say, as you agree, Earth is a school. It’s an opportunity.

00:26:03 – 00:26:42

Owen: It shifts in and out between school and playgrounds. Heaven and hell. It’s all perspective. I agree with you. I’m meeting people where they’re at. You know, you mentioned that some people just aren’t ready to go there. You know, maybe another lifetime or a few more lifetimes. That’s just not their path. But you have a unique thing in that you are also trained as a medical doctor. Do you find that helps? Because I know there’s some people who have blocks around spirituality and spiritual healing. Do you find that you have people that come to you because you also have that background that are like looking for a bridge?

00:26:42 – 00:27:31

Abigail: It’s interesting. That would be the model. I originally had the holistic model, and it did my years of acupuncture, and I did my sort of natural healing clinic combined with medical. But. And that that would be the bridge. And people still come for that reason. Even when did walk in clinics, they would come to a degree because they get a bigger perspective. Now I’m asking people to come not just simply for a bridge to medicine, but because they want to expand who they are. And it’s not that I’m not sensitive or I can’t help people work with illness. I can think of holistic healing models and so on, but that’s not the full purpose. It’s not enough. And I make that clear.

00:27:31 – 00:27:33

Owen: The full purpose is.

00:27:33 – 00:27:46

Abigail: You couldn’t find peace in yourself. And some people have that naturally. I sure don’t solve my life. It’s because I’ve worked hard on it that I’ve a lot of tools to help others.

00:27:46 – 00:27:52

Owen: I find some of the best healers are the ones that had to had to work hard on it. And that’s how you learn to help others.

00:27:52 – 00:28:35

Abigail: There’s a whole story on that, and you might say the Royal Road is defined by the think it was Black Elk. Speke wrote the Royal Road, but that’s the same as the road of the spine with the chakras. And as you go up the chakras is various gates, and there’s challenges in each one. You can be, you know, it’s inevitable through life to, to meet these challenges, feel the dark, feel some pain and still carry on. And some people, even saints, had the soul drawn through very difficult lifetimes. But enough faith is critical faith that somehow things will work out. And very important.

00:28:35 – 00:28:39

Owen: So if someone is in a place of darkness, how do they find that faith?

00:28:39 – 00:29:35

Abigail: I think one has to know that somewhere it’s there. And you can’t escape your dilemma. You have to work through it. There’s a lot of help in today’s societies, a huge difference to going back in time. There’s a variety of help with many different levels, and we don’t have to feel alone. And then ultimately. It’s a soul quality, really faith. So it’s a very gradual process. But even on a personal level, just to be able to transform your thinking. Simple cognitive behavioral therapy, I’m going to do it somehow. I’m going to do it and that’s it. Affirmations become very important. And finally, faith is when you don’t know if you know you’re going to succeed. Oh, this is coming through. And the odds are 99%. You don’t need much faith. But where you don’t know, you need a lot of.

00:29:36 – 00:29:36

Owen: Yeah.

00:29:37 – 00:30:38

Abigail: Well, I feel like certainty is such an illusion anyway. Like, the egoic mind tries a certainty and control. And that’s not reality. It’s not the world we exist in. We can’t control anything. You can begin to react differently. Remember when my dog first got diagnosed with my dog had lymphoma? He’s doing great now. We’ve been working with him. At first it was really tough news and I was like, what are we going to do? I just need to know. And I went and I went to yoga. One of my guides showed up and said, you have to let go. And I was like, well, if I let go, everything’s going to fall apart, blah, blah, blah. My God was just like, chill the f out. You have to have faith. I was like, faith. And they just call the frequency of faith to you, like just bring that energy in. And I just felt that, like universal frequency of faith coming in like this gold, shimmery light. And it held me and I was okay. It was like to me, it was like the antidote for needing control with the ego and then faith coming in the soul. It was just soothed everything.

00:30:38 – 00:30:38

Owen: You added the.

00:30:38 – 00:30:40

Abigail: Letting go, which is so critical.

00:30:41 – 00:30:50

Owen: Because the mind thinks once you let go, everything’s going to fall apart. But like in reality, the ego is not holding up all of existence. So everything’s not going to fall apart.

00:30:50 – 00:30:52

Abigail: When you let go.

00:30:55 – 00:31:03

Owen: How can people, if they want to work with you, if they’re like, all right, you know what? I’m ready to expand. I’m ready to connect with my soul.

00:31:04 – 00:31:22

Abigail: Well, the best is to look at the website because it hasn’t. I never remember the number, but peak called Peak clinics, Pinnacle Clinics, they handle my admin. So in that website is the it gives information and the number to call.

00:31:22 – 00:31:23

Owen: Awesome.

00:31:23 – 00:31:27

Abigail: And I can put that in the show notes as well. And so for Canadians.

00:31:27 – 00:31:42

Owen: It’s partially covered. We’ll leave it at that. But Alberta their provincial health plans. So there is a covering of some of it with the Alberta Health. Don’t want to say it’s completely covered. People have to really want it.

00:31:43 – 00:31:50

Abigail: Like you have to participate in your own healing. And you mentioned empowerment earlier. Like you don’t get empowerment without doing the work.

00:31:50 – 00:31:52

Owen: That’s that’s.

00:31:52 – 00:32:21

Abigail: It. But the work can be joyful and the work can be a lot less than work, like people think it can be. Just the willingness to adjust your life and let it be gradual. It’s not like you have to change your whole life right now just got included. It’s like a river that comes in with another colored river. Maybe it’s gray or brown, or they. Gradually the colors merge together many kilometers upstream a downstream.

00:32:22 – 00:32:41

Owen: I can speak to that joyful experience of working with you. It is a very light experience and it is joyful. I’m open to doing the work. I’m open to that shifting. Maybe that’s part of why it’s so joyful, but I find, like working with you, I get these profound insights, but it does feel like we’re in that kind of super consciousness place.

00:32:41 – 00:33:06

Abigail: Really beautifully said Abby, because in a way, the ideal world, like what people think of as healing, is that somebody gives energy to someone else, the healer gives energy to the client or the healing. But ideally, what could be happening is the two enter a space, and in that space the healing occurs.

00:33:08 – 00:33:09

Owen: Beautifully said.

00:33:09 – 00:33:15

Abigail: I couldn’t agree more. It’s like the guide opens the door to that space.

00:33:15 – 00:33:26

Owen: That’s it. Just simple. Even if you can’t do the whole thing, you can do a simple little. You can do a few simple things to get going.

00:33:26 – 00:33:29

Abigail: So what would you suggest to get going?

00:33:30 – 00:35:14

Owen: I think the primer, if I had to say to get going, is everybody should do some sort of self reflection meditation and the best meditation. Is to recognize that you’re connecting like with a friend and spirits. The friend, not just mindfulness, where you’re just aware of everything around you and you’re deciding to be peaceful and be the observer. You might say that’s more or less mindfulness, but to consider God’s Spirit, representative God, a guru, Christ, Buddha, Yogananda, the great ones. You could be that, or it could be the light for you. But you want to have a personal, loving approach, a connection with the friend. If you can start that, that’s the speediest way. Then just to get peaceful and bring in that energy. And the second thing is, do not judge yourself for the past. Just. Just. Okay, I made these errors. I don’t have to continue. You don’t want to hold that judgment comes from complete acceptance. And really, everyone without spirit is lame and have a long ways to go, so it doesn’t matter. Some people say, oh, look at the success they’ve had outwardly. No. What’s counting? It’s. Spirit is calling to you. You don’t know what’s ahead. It could be fantastic or whatever it is. So babies begin by starting to crawl. Then walk. Same with us. We gradually build up our resources and it’ll happen. It doesn’t prevent you from leading your life outwardly, but it changes that.

00:35:16 – 00:35:29

Abigail: Opening up to that connection and that state of peace. This coming out with a friend, something as simple as connecting with a friend and then releasing judgment of yourself. So how does somebody let go of judging themself?

00:35:29 – 00:37:02

Owen: You have to make a conscious decision as an example. So you make a conscious choice that I can challenge my behavior. That’s fine. I can judge my behavior, but I can. I’m just going to make it a rule, an understanding, a depth not to judge my heart and beingness. And then, you know, people have, through your lifetime, sometimes judged you. And so you become. They murder your soul initially because. And then you do the same thing because you join the crowd and judge yourself. So you have to say stop. You might call it if you have to look up something, stop to the inner critic. And replace. That was something that’s just like you do with the child. You’d encourage, you’d be positive, but at the same time, a child, you’re not going to make every excuse in the world you want them to to, to develop, you know, the best behavior for their own self development. So you’re going to encourage but also create discipline. So syllabuses set a little discipline. It’s important to do. People go for a walk. The exercise. They eat, this, they meditate, whatever it is, all those things. And then there’s a whole inner resource of challenger emotions, thoughts into a higher way. And then there’s a whole field of affirmations which can be very useful.

00:37:03 – 00:37:07

Abigail: That’s the core concept. And then the tools break down to more and more micro pieces.

00:37:08 – 00:37:19

Owen: And often when there’s this connection between the healer and healing, the spirit gives the exact formula you need because. So as you know, it’s so individual for each person.

00:37:19 – 00:37:36

Abigail: And you’re quite intuitive when you’re working with people. That’s what I find. When there’s space for the intuition to flow, things can actually shift quite quickly when it’s not limited to the rigidity of a specific model of trying to fit into a certain model by just let it be whatever is needed at the time.

00:37:36 – 00:37:56

Owen: Very well put. That’s. I’d say that’s right on. It’s okay to have models and to have something in the background you can express, but to leave that opening to the mysterious, the miracle. Who knows what might happen. It’s beautiful.

00:37:57 – 00:37:57

Abigail: Oh.

00:37:58 – 00:38:00

Owen: Well, thank you for doing the work that you do.

00:38:00 – 00:38:00

Abigail: In this world.

00:38:00 – 00:38:09

Owen: You’re very welcome. I hope the people say, when are you retiring? No, I’m not going to retire. Why should I retire? Something I enjoy.

00:38:10 – 00:38:13

Abigail: If it’s still fun, do it til it’s not fun anymore.

00:38:13 – 00:38:33

Owen: It’s fun and it has a purpose. It has a meaning. It’s like spirit is is asked me. And of course my wife, Jean Marsh. She joins me in this work as well, more at an inward level. But she’s part of this whole thing. And it’s I was very fortunate to have that support in my life.

00:38:33 – 00:38:39

Abigail: It goes a long way. That’s beautiful. Well, I’ll include the link in the show notes to your website.

00:38:39 – 00:38:42

Owen: Excellent interview Abby. Appreciate that.

00:38:43 – 00:38:53

Abigail: Oh my goodness. Thank you. Yeah that’s been excellent. And then do you have any final words you want to impart to the world kind of with how you feel things are at right now.

00:38:53 – 00:39:44

Owen: And yes, I’ll just comment on the world as much as there is obvious degradation or the climate, there is an advancement spiritually, spiritually that’s inexorably going on. It’s maybe slow, it’s halting, but it’s there. If you would have, if you would listen to the people in a crowd in the 50s and 60 somewhere in South Africa or wherever, and you listen now, you’ll see a difference. But of course, the negativity also rears itself up now too, so don’t despair. There is a vision for this world, but that the great masters and spirit of already outlined. It’s not that I know it all, but I’m aware of that and that will express itself over.

00:39:44 – 00:39:47

Abigail: Beautifully said. Thank you.

00:39:48 – 00:39:51

Owen: So welcome. Great pleasure. Thanks, Abby.

00:39:51 – 00:39:52

Abigail: Thanks. So.