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22-Renate Mueller

Episode 22 Renate Sophia Muller How to Launch Your Soulful Podcast
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Renate Sophia Mueller

Renate Sophia Mueller is a Soulful Podcast Mentor, Energy Healer and Feminine Leadership Coach. She’s helping spiritual and heart centered women find their authentic voice and unleash their message with the world via a podcast, so they can make a massive impact and become a thought leader.

Connect with Renate:
Instagram: @renatesophiamueller

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:01) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss, and I’m so excited to have Renate Muller here. She is a soulful podcast mentor, an energy healer, and a feminine leadership coach. She’s helping spiritual and heart-centered women to find their authentic voice and unleash their message with the world via a podcast so they can make a massive impact and become thought leaders. I’m so, so happy to see more women stepping up and to see you empowering women’s voices. I feel like that’s so needed right now with this kind of the divine feminine essence that’s being called to come back and kind of bring the world into greater balance. And I’m just so thrilled to get to speak to you. So thank you so much for being here.

Renate (00:00:47) Rene Thank you so much. Abigail Yeah, I’m excited to be here and I can’t wait for where our conversation will go.

Abby (00:00:57) I know infinite possibilities. We were talking, we just realized. I just realize we went to the same little town in India and Hrishikesh to do our yoga teacher’s training. And you’re in Australia, but you spent some time in Revelstoke and Canada and it’s like, Oh, it’s such a small world that we live in. You just never know.

Renate (00:01:15). Yeah. I mean, what a coincidence that you know, the other end of the world right now. I’m in Australia, but we can connect with you. Yeah.

Abby (00:01:25) It’s magical. We live in the future. I love. So can you tell me a little bit? You’re a healer and you’re a podcasting mentor. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey of coming into this world of healing and empowerment?

Renate (00:01:40) Yes, for sure. So it’s always a funny question for me because I have no idea where to start sometimes. Because I kind of work.

Abby (00:01:49) Likes to tell the whole story. So if I’m going a bit too long, just let me know. Go for it.

Renate (00:01:55) Okay, perfect. So let’s say I go back even to my high school. I was a highly sensitive child. I always struggled with speaking my true fear, speaking up. I was like a little mouse. And I just wanted nobody to notice me at all. So I was trying to hide for almost my entire life. And then I think when I finished high school I traveled to New Zealand, so I kind of stepped out of my comfort zone. And when I started traveling and seeing the world I started to realize, wow, you know, there’s so much out there. And I became a bit more confident within myself because I feel like traveling really sets you up for the world out there and you just become mature in a way and you adapt quickly to difficult situations.

Renate (00:03:05) And then I was working as a flight attendant, so I was trying to get into uni and I didn’t get accepted at any university, and yeah, in Germany. And that was really surprising for me because all of my friends went to high school, went to university, I mean, and I just didn’t get accepted and I was wondering what, what’s going on? And I was applying for social work. And back then I wasn’t aware that so many people wanted to study social work and become social workers. So yeah, it was just so difficult to get into any university. So I thought, okay, I’m kind of like a loser in a way, you know, I can’t go to university, although I try to.

Renate (00:03:58) And for some reason that kind of. And, you know, I became just really low in myself and I just thought, okay, I would just go on with traveling, I guess because that’s what I love to do. And then I applied for some flight attendant jobs and I became a flight attendant eventually. And then I traveled the world for 1 to 2 years. But then I realized, okay, traveling the world is still not my thing. It’s not my biggest purpose in life. I was asking myself, what is the purpose of my life? And I just felt like doing the same thing over and over again. It didn’t suit me and my personality and I was always really more passionate.

Renate (00:04:57) I was always a really big thinker and I just thought, Oh no, I want to kind of change the world in some sort of way. And then I, I think 2018, beginning of 2018, I hit rock bottom and I just, you know, I came back from a long-distance flight and I was so tired, so exhausted. I didn’t want to have anyone around me anymore because I always had so many people on my flights. And it was just so, so exhausting. So really let me almost burn out. And I didn’t really realize what burnout was back then, so I just kept going. But deep within me, I knew I can’t go on with this forever.

Renate (00:05:47) And I did some yoga to balance me out. I did meditation back then, and that always helped me to connect with my spirit, with myself. And then I had this crazy idea What about becoming a yoga teacher? And that was adventurous, fought for me because I thought, How can I become a yoga teacher? I just did yoga for a couple of years and now I want to become a yoga teacher. And at first, I thought, Oh, it’s insane to do that and just quit my secure job in Germany. But then this fort became bigger and bigger and bigger and, I just quit my job. And I think it was in June. I quit my job and then I booked my flights to Rishikesh, India. And yeah, I went on this journey to India and did this yoga teacher training.

Renate (00:06:52) And India is so different from Germany. So for me, that was another, you know, stepping out of my comfort zone and really finding myself again. And yeah, India as well, was leveling me up in every yeah, every possible corner of myself in a way. And I became a different person on an emotional level, on a mental level, on a physical level. And then I find that I have healing abilities. And I was yeah, I didn’t know about that. I was always a natural healer and someone told me that I was doing a Reiki course in Canada then and I had a healing course. So yeah, it was for me like, Oh my God, this is a whole different world, the healing world, and healing other people.

Renate (00:07:56) And combining that with yoga, yeah, it was just perfect. And then yeah, I started my podcast when I was in Canada actually, so that was after my yoga teacher training. I started a podcast and it was another crazy thing where for who am I to do this? But another friend of mine did it and I was like, oh, I’m permitting myself now to do it. So I just did it anyway. And here I am right now, coaching people now how to do their podcast, I think four years later, and I actually can’t believe to say that to you. But yeah, I’m a podcasting mentor now and I’m a healer and I’m empowering women to do the same. So yeah.

Abby (00:08:47) So I love your story. I love that. And I can relate to so many things and I think a lot of the listeners will too. You know, when you said that when you were in school, like being highly sensitive like that, was that that term of highly sensitive people or I call them empaths, where it’s like 20% of the population, are wired differently. We just take on more in our nervous system. And I feel like it’s so easy to be overwhelmed as a highly sensitive and but on the flip side siders side of that is these gifts that we have like these naturally born healers and leaders and visionaries because we can tune into the subtle world as long as we can figure out how to tap into those gifts.

Abby (00:09:31) So and it’s I love that you dared to go from, like you describe, feeling like a mouse to go out and travel the world. And what an incredible difference that made. And I can 100% relate to that, just being so transformative because you have to problem-solve every day. There’s there is no comfort a comfortable little bubble when you’re traveling and there’s all of these new cultures and all these new, beautiful experiences and beautiful people. So it’s so phenomenal for growth. And I’m curious, was it scary for you to take that leap into beginning to go out and see the world and like embarking on that journey? What was that like?

Renate (00:10:16) Yeah, it was. You know, before I went on my travels, I had no idea. I had no idea what the world looks like, what other cultures are like, and that you can live a different life. So in Germany, we have a lot of structure and you know, you just go to university after your high school and then maybe you go on travels while you’re working and building a family. So there’s not a lot of space for creativity and doing things a bit differently. And I was always a person. I was so interested in, you know, different cultures and, you know, just getting out of your bubble and expanding yourself. So I was always trying to search for new ways of finding a new version of myself and finding new pathways which are not common. So I always wanted to be different. And it’s really interesting. I’m not sure if you know about human design the d if you’re into human design.

Abby (00:11:35) Oh, I love human design. I’m a is a projector I think. Yeah, yeah, I love human design.

Renate (00:11:43)
Renate: It seems like I actually think I found out about human design last year and I, someone read my profile and just made total sense. So I’m a manifesting generator. I’m a warm, multi-passionate being. And the thing is that lly born to always change my course, always to change the direction of my life, and not to be the same person that I used to be. And also in my business, I had to learn that too, like allowing myself to know to do different kinds of coaching and to integrate all of my self, all my passions in one business. And this is my niche. So sorry. Coming back to your question and I think just, you know, getting to know me more through my travels just helped me so much in my future.

Renate (00:12:45) And I think I can recommend that everyone if you kind of want to maybe change the direction of your life or you want to find yourself, you don’t know what to do. I recommend getting out of your comfort zone traveling. And I was in so many difficult situations because I feel like the universe throws you into challenging moments that you are here to solve. And when you solve them, you’re like, Oh my God. It was not that difficult. It was not that hard. And then you become more resilient and then then you just really create a really strong foundation for yourself. You create a very strong foundation.

Renate (00:13:31) You know, when you’re a woman, I feel like, especially when you are highly sensitive, you just want to be in your own bubble time and you want to hide and you don’t want to speak up. So, you know, getting out of your comfort zone and traveling and talking to different kinds of people and maybe speaking a different language, learning a new language, it just helps you so much with your confidence and your resilience. And it just I think it opens up new doors that, you know, you wouldn’t be the same person. You’re just not the same person any more than you were before. And then it just, you know, it creates a new life for you.

Abby (00:14:18) I love that. I love that. I was thinking back to you mentioned you were so disappointed that you didn’t get into university. And it’s funny, those things were you know, someone had said once were the saying where, you know, you didn’t get what you want, but it’s because the universe is something better planned. It’s like they don’t always see that perspective at the moment but in the greater picture. It’s interesting to look back and realize, Oh if I had gone, I would have been on a totally different path for you. Who knows where you would be right now? So it’s so cool to see what feels like, you know, does not feel like a blessing at a time. At the time can become that.

Renate (00:14:58) Yeah, no, it doesn’t feel like that at all. You’re just like, why? Why, why on earth does the universe put me down as a really difficult situation? Yeah, you know, it was so funny because of two months. Ago. It was I was put, I think, on purpose and in one of the most difficult situations. I’m not sure if you heard about the flooding in Australia, but we were staying at a rainforest retreat behind Mullumbimby and Mullumbimby is a hip place on the east coast of Australia and we went a rain forest and after one week of staying there it started to rain and we just thought, oh, it’s the wet season, you know, it’s normal that we get flooded in, you know, but it didn’t stop raining for an entire week and then it started to rain like crazy, like really, really hard rain.

Renate (00:15:56) It didn’t stop overnight and we become a bit anxious. We’re like, Is that normal? You know, we never experienced something like that before. And then I think it happened overnight that we had a power cut. We had no electricity for a couple of days, no Internet connection, and we even had a water shortage. The roads into town were all damaged and we were put in the situation, I believe, for reasons to become stronger, to become more resilient. But back then I was just like, why is this happening to us? Do you know? And then 300 meters down the road, there was a landslide and it took a person’s life away. And we’re like, Oh my God, that’s a natural disaster.

Renate (00:16:47) And literally and we’re like, you know, my part. And I was just like always wondering, why did we choose to come here? Because we do believe, you know, when you practice a lot of spiritual, spiritual practices or when you’re connected to source, you do become conscious of every action you do and of every person you meet. And you just realize that everything is connected really on this earth. And I do believe that and that it is sometimes our choice to that we create those situations for us. But as you said before, sometimes we think, you know, why is this happening to us? And it feels like hell on earth at that time.

Renate (00:17:37) And that’s so interesting because I feel like because I traveled so much in my life and I already had so many challenging moments in my life that I was already quite strong within me and I knew how to navigate myself through this really difficult situation of like staying calm, trusting in myself and, you know, really trying to be just this mountain to be present within me and to realize, alright, this bill, this too shall pass, it will pass and everything will be alright. And I was just so grateful that we were safe, that nothing happened to us. And luckily we lived in a community so we were all helping each other out. And it was incredible because the people from the Valley were all helping each other out. People brought us food from town, they brought us petrol. It was. It was mind-blowing. That was like humanity. Oh, my God. It was so, like?

Renate (00:18:49) I had tears In my eye. It was just wow. It was just so beautiful how people can work together in a crisis. And sometimes that needs to happen. A crisis needs to happen for us to come together and to make build new pathways. Yeah.

Abby (00:19:13) Yeah. That’s so beautiful. I couldn’t agree more. And it’s what I’m hearing is a couple of things. One, it sounds like resilience and the confidence that comes from that is a muscle, one that we gain by putting ourselves in these situations that are outside of our control. So we have to think on our feet and figure things out. And every time we do that, we get a little stronger, a little more confident in our ability to do that. And I love what you said, too, about, you know, why is this happening? But there is a reason for why. There’s always some reason and that coming together in community, I feel like I can relate a lot.

Abby (00:19:51) I’ve been doing a lot of personal healing and when I was younger I had all my walls built up to protect my heart. No one shall Pass. I was like Gandalf with a staff. That’s like, what? But then layer by layer, life found Way to help me break it down. And I had this like this illness or these physical issues I was having. And there was one time on the bus when I just passed out and I just prayed. I’m like, Oh, my God, it’s please, I don’t know what to do. And then before I knew what someone was saying, Hey, are you okay?

Abby (00:20:30) Somebody else was bringing me pop and some candy, and someone else was like rubbing this, like, pain medication on my face. And the Whole bus came together. To help this total stranger and remind you of what you’re saying. This community coming together, it’s just people can be really, truly amazing. And I think that in our hearts, we all are. It’s just given this opportunity to knock down the walls of this normal trance-like state that we can find ourselves in and remember what’s important, you know, taking care of each other. It’s such a beautiful thing to experience that.

Renate (00:21:04) Yeah. And it opened my eyes to what’s possible in the future. And, you know, I’m really about this new earth leadership and building a new Earth sometimes because it requires crisis, you know, otherwise, we won’t change anything. It just opened. Yeah, it opened my eyes that wow, you know, what’s happened was horrible was terrific and but people really, they stood together and help each other out. And then even in the town, they were opening up a healing space for people who are traumatized from this experience. And they offered free services.

Renate (00:21:49) And I was like, Oh my God, you know, how beautiful is this world? Because sometimes we just think that everyone is so egoistic and everyone is just thinking of themselves and nobody has a heart anymore. And this is just not true. I do believe that we all have a wonderful heart within us and sometimes, yeah, we build these walls around us because we think it’s not safe to be in this world. After all, we were hurt in the past, because of our trauma, because of the things that we have experienced, and based on that, we judge other people. But who are we to judge others? And it all starts with ourselves first. So to build also new earth, a new world, we have to establish ourselves first and create this new earth within us. So yeah.

Abby (00:22:54) I love that. Can you tell me more about New Earth leadership? What does that mean to you?

Renate (00:23:00) Yeah. So for me, new leadership means that we are not doing the things we used to do anymore. We kind of destroying the old ways of thinking, the old patterns, the Patrick patriarchy, I hope I pronounce it right of, you know this when people are just so into consuming and they all think it’s about materialism and buying new stuff, and I believe it, you know, to create a new earth, a new world is about, you know, looking within and healing yourself first, healing your wounds and stop hurting other people with your actions, with your force. Because what’s happening in the world and even right now, as we can see with we still having a war on earth, we’re still fighting each other.

Renate (00:24:10) We’re still kind of like little children. And this is all because we haven’t looked at our wounds. We haven’t looked at our traumas. We haven’t always looked at other leaders to lead us. And I think this is one of the mistakes that we are doing that we have done, that we’re always looking out for the answers to, always looking up for other people to lead us. But if you are stepping away from this whole old paradigm and stepping into a new way of thinking of like, wow, okay, I have everything in my control. I am the creator of my own life.

Renate (00:24:50) And when you just take self-responsibility for your actions, when you realize, wow, I chose this right now, I created this situation right now, and you, you really open your eyes more about, oh my God, when I say this to this person right now I have them and maybe traumatized. The rest of their life. So just it is about becoming more conscious. I do believe in this new earth movement. It is. It is it can be quite simple. And you can break it down to the foundation of becoming as conscious as possible as you can be as present as possible with all your thoughts. Your actions were everything you put out there. And when you worked on yourself, when you healed your wounds, you just you you know, you just are a different person. Your cells are changing and you are changing your vibration.

Renate (00:25:53) when you change your vibration, you do help others around you to change their energy and to change their vibration as well. And then you permit them to become a leader as well because when you can do it, others can do it as well. So it’s more about the focus within yourself, your consciousness, and then starting to create something that you want to see in this world. Maybe if you want to become a coach, become a yoga teacher, and maybe you just, you know, you stay in your job, but you become the most conscious person. You become the best person on this earth to do this job and you help others to do the same. So this is for me, all this new leadership. And I think when sometimes people hear that are like, what is this real? But it is quite simple. It’s just a shift in consciousness. Yeah, I hope that makes sense.

Abby (00:26:58) makes perfect sense. It’s beautiful. I kind of see it as like I hear that as like becoming a leader within yourself and letting it extend forward from there. And just this kind of radical ownership for you and me, I agree. You know, it’s there’s so much trauma around the world and there’s so much war that’s an extension of that, this unresolved pain. And I feel like there’s a calling for humanity to heal it like I see it coming out and all different kinds of themes in the media and just all of these concepts of healing trauma. And it’s just like the I think the subconscious collective psyche is asking for that. It’s time, especially with the pandemic and so many people having so much solitary time, having had so much solitary time with themselves.

Abby (00:27:48) A friend of mine had said, you know, going inward and being alone is a shamanic journey. And if you’re not sure how to navigate that, it can be really scary. But it can you can start facing all of these things that were hiding in the background that we didn’t, you know, we didn’t know were there. I’ll start showing up. So I almost feel like healing the trauma is like the entry point to that place of feeling powerful again. So, so much trauma happens when we’re young and we feel powerless to do anything about it. Being a healer yourself, what is your take on that?

Renate (00:28:29) So you mean healing the trauma? Sorry, I. The question.

Abby (00:28:34) Yeah. So how do you feel? The sense of empowerment and feeling capable and confident coincides with healing your wounds or getting help having someone help you heal your wounds?

Renate (00:28:49) Yeah. So. I think when you’re just by yourself, I think I just know that really from my own life. I think it’s also really a German way of doing things that you just want to solve everything by ourself and we want to heal ourselves first. We don’t want that someone else can help us to heal or to look into our past and stuff.

Abby (00:29:15) That’s very Canadian, too.

Renate (00:29:22) Well, I actually think that most people operate in the system. Like, I just can do it by myself. And it’s just really it comes actually from quite an ego space to think like I can do everything by myself. But also, you know, we were maybe so hurt from our past that we don’t want to let anyone into our lives and to, you know, we are really afraid to be vulnerable and to be seen. And we are so afraid to be vulnerable to be seen because we are afraid of being not liked anymore to being abandoned. And we have to look here also into this really deep fear that we have and these deep fears, those shadow sides, they can take control of your own life and they can stop you from your best possible life.

Renate (00:30:21) So I do believe in getting help and end to surrender into like, oh, my God, I can’t do this by myself. I do need someone else who, you know, we need another perspective. We need someone else. You can look at us not from this traumatized space or not even from our family perspective. We have to you know, we have to have someone you can look just, you know, of just like really innocent being in front of them. And we are innocent. You know this is our natural state. We are very pure beings, but we sometimes put so many layers on ourselves to protect ourselves, to protect our hearts. And when I started to start in 2018 before I went to my yoga course, I started a self-help course to look more within and heal more wounds.

Renate (00:31:26) And then I realized that was the best decision of my life ever. It was life-changing because I realized, oh, my God, I created all those situations and someone else, you know, I needed another perspective. And then I just, you know, I, I hired coaches my whole life and they just really helped me to empower myself. And I think sometimes we do need other people. Yeah.

Abby (00:31:57) Oh, my God. I could not agree more. I’m such a believer and receiving help. I don’t think there’s a single being on this planet that doesn’t work with someone else. We all are supported in so many ways by each other, directly or indirectly. And I feel like, yeah, we can get so caught in our own stories and pains to have somebody like a calm guide from the outside looking in. You can just take our hand and say, Hey, let’s, let’s go, let’s walk through this. It’s so, so transformative. I’ll probably work with coaches and healers for the rest of my life.

Renate (00:32:32) Yes. Because we do need them. You know, like if we just think we can do it all by ourselves, then again, it’s still in this old way of thinking, the old oh paradigm of like, oh, no, you know, it’s kind of like your inner child. It’s like, no, I can do it by myself.

Abby (00:32:51) And yeah, totally, you know, I do my way.

Renate (00:32:59) And, you know, just me as leadership. It is feminine. It comes from this divine feminine space like a community. And we can do this together. And by creating this new earth together, it’s, you know, you just feel so much more held and seen and you realize that, oh, my gosh, like it is safe to be seen. And I think that’s what we all come back to the safety within ourselves. Because if we can feel safe and we have this foundation within us, then, you know, anything can happen in the outside world, but we can stand still because we have this safety within ourselves and we’re like, Oh no, I’m okay right now, and no matter what happens, I will be okay. Yeah.

Abby (00:33:49) Yeah. That’s beautiful. And I feel like. For women, especially because throughout history we didn’t get to have a lot of voice and we didn’t get to be seen. And so it’s just so much deconditioning and ancestral deconditioning and collective deconditioning. Do you find that when you are coaching, when you’re doing your podcast coaching as well, do you see that a lot of this kind of fear of being seen?

Renate (00:34:17) Yeah, it’s the most common fear actually behind everything. So it’s really interesting because a lot of women come into my life and already established a business. But one of the biggest fears, I mean, they all say, is technology. But at the end of the day, it is the fear of being seen off, you know, and also of being rejected as well when they when they are seen. And I think this is such a common fear. I think that every woman has that when we speak up. And I think it is because of our conditioning, it’s because of what happened to women in the past, of our generational traumas, that we are not feeling safe to speak our truth because we feel like if we speak our thoughts right now, we are not safe. You’re getting abandoned. You know, and it also has it’s connected to that. We even got burned because people thought we were witches.

Abby (00:35:20) And been there in a past life. That wasn’t fun.

Renate (00:35:24) Wasn’t at all. And the thing. Is that it is still stored in our bodies and a lot of people are not aware of this. So, you know, as women we do we do have to heal a lot of these ancestral traumas and generational traumas also from the war times. And it’s just like getting activated in our bodies. And I think, yeah, especially right now too, with the war in Ukraine that, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I fought wars over and my grandparents lived in the wartime. But, you know, it still gets activated within them when they hear about the war in Ukraine and they get really, really anxious and traumatized again.

Abby (00:36:08) Yeah The pain still lives inside us. It’s in the body and the psyche and the spirit. It’s like the triggering of something that we’ve been through. We see it a lot when I work with women healers to something called the Witch Wound, like from the times when women were born, burned. And so a lot of people who have this, like, desire to heal in whatever way that is, it can be just physically terrifying, like induce a fight or flight response. So what do you find is the best way of overcoming that? Like, how do you help women move through that?

Renate (00:36:51) Yeah. So I think, first of all, it’s so important to regulate your nervous system. I think that’s one of the foundations of everything because if you don’t have a regulate the nervous system, you don’t know how to get out of this fight and flight response. And it is just really hard to, you know, to create a business even or to stay calm and situations. And because any little thing can be triggering for you and you just get in this race mode again. So by there are so many different things you can do to regulate your nervous system. I found Breathwork was super, super healing for me. It was one of the best ways to get out of my head, and back into my body. And yeah, it is amazing. And I have to say cold therapy as well. I love cold therapy. I started in Canada.

Abby (00:37:52) Because it was so cold. Oh, my God, that’s my excuse. Like, nobody in Canada is cold therapy. It’s good for you. Yeah, it’s awesome.

Renate (00:38:03) It was. It was so cold. I remember I was going into the Canadian legs and it was freezing. Oh, my God. Reasoning. I was like. I was screaming at the beginning because.

Abby (00:38:13) It was so much fun. Yeah, I believe it. I would be too so bad.

Renate (00:38:19) But then, I don’t know. I just get addicted to this feeling in my body because I never felt like that before. I mean, I did yoga for most of my life and I think that’s such a good mindfulness practice. But cold therapy is just like, oh, my God, you just, you know, you kind of stay in this hot water and you’re like, oh, my God, you think you’re going to die? But then you realize, ah, when you go out, it’s fine. I’m okay.

Renate (00:38:50) And it’s just. Yeah, it’s. Just a really good practice for your nervous system. I found, of course, not to overdo it because I overdid it a little bit at the beginning too, and then I just stayed cold for the rest of the day and I don’t recommend that. So know your limits as well. That is important. But yeah, really, you know, these practices of being mindful also with your speech and what you’re saying, what you’re thinking about yourself, how you talk. And I think that can change a lot when you realize what kind of things you’re saying and then you try to yeah, you changing your mindset here that you are safe to speak and you can practice that by recording yourself.

Renate (00:39:46) And I have women to start to on podcasts because I found this is one of the best ways to become confident with your speech, to become confident with yourself because you don’t have to show your face. A lot of people are terrified by that. And that’s what I found, too. You know, you just have to put yourself in front of this microphone and nobody has to know how many times it takes you to record yourself at the beginning. But yeah, that helps me. And I think also chanting mantras helped me help me the most to activate my voice and to come out of my head and back into my body.

Renate (00:40:34) Those, you know, when you chant those mantras, they come from ancient India, and they. I carry this sacred sound and it changes your cells. And it’s just it’s such a beautiful feeling when you go to kilotons when you have the chance to go to town somewhere in your local town and your local city. And it is just really, really amazing. I’m going to get myself a harmonium to practice more singing and to activate my voice even more. And yeah, I think, yeah, first of all, it’s the foundation about yourself and then getting into practices. Yeah.

Abby (00:41:23) That’s beautiful. I went to a couple of curtains recently and it is there’s so much power in just tuning in with the frequency and this ancient-like meaning and sounds coming together. And I love what you said about Breathwork. I have a friend on the previous episode we talked about Breathwork and cold therapy. I should connect you with her.

Renate (00:41:42) Both and so transformative. And what I love about that and when you said building the foundation with the nervous system because I feel like things like Breathwork and things like cold therapy, help us face and release the trauma stored in the nervous system. And we can’t think our way out of that. We have to feel our way through it, I believe, anyway.

Abby (00:42:07). Yeah. You have to feel, you know, and I think that’s what women are resisting because, you know, we’ve been told in our past, don’t cry anymore. No, no, no, no, no, don’t, don’t scream. Don’t do anything. So what I did, was I just kept quiet when I felt really angry within myself. I, you know, I didn’t cry at all. And then when I became much more conscious about myself and also when I became a healer, I noticed how much more I cried. And I was like, Why do I cry now? But then I realize it’s healing. Now I’m back to myself and I realized that crying is beautiful and there’s nothing wrong with that. And yeah, really getting in touch with your feelings and also I think dancing. I think, yeah, that’s something that I want to say as well. Some embodiment practicing practices like dancing can also really help to release your emotions. That did a lot for me as well.

Renate (00:43:18)  I love dancing so much. Yeah, and I love crying. I feel so alive. It’s like.

Abby (00:43:22) Oh, I found some.

Renate (00:43:24) Tears. They get to be expressed.

Abby (00:43:26)  Thank goodness I feel so good.

Renate (00:43:29) So the expressions from your soul, you know, it’s your you know, it’s like a cleansing of the soul. We just think it’s bad and we just change ourselves. But there’s nothing wrong with it.

Abby (00:43:44) Oh, it’s beautiful. And, you know, talking about being seen, I feel like what a beautiful way to see yourself. Something that wants to be expressed.

Renate (00:43:54). Yeah.

Abby (00:43:56) I love that. And so can you tell me a little bit more about what is it like working with you in doing this podcast coaching and the healing work? Like, what does that look like?

Renate (00:44:09) Yeah. So I offer one-on-one podcast coaching and that goes usually for eight weeks and I help them to set up their podcast. I have to move everything. I edited their first episodes and I kind of walked them through my practices. We do voice training. We look a bit deeper into the story and also into their unique message. Because I do feel like when you have a refined message and it will be just so much easier to get attention and to be also more crystal clear about what you’re talking about and who you are at your core.

Renate (00:44:52) And so your message is always really connected with your soul path, I believe. And that’s where human design comes in. So our plan blends a little bit of human design and my coaching as well. And, and yeah, we do some chanting practices and then I also have a group program and it’s called Launch Soulful Podcast. And within eight weeks or less than eight weeks, I have them, you know, first setting up this foundation of also owning their story, finding the why and mission and why they want to do this podcast, and also to create this future vision. And they can connect with yeah. With their future. And realize, okay, why do I do all of this?

Renate (00:45:46) Why do I start this podcast right now? Because your vision will carry you a long, long way when you know why you’re doing all of this. And we’ll just help you to keep going with your podcast and Jen and all the podcast tech. That’s its section and how to set it up on a podcast host. And but I do love to do all those spiritual practices before I do, I just love the combination of all. Yeah.

Abby (00:46:17) I love that. I love it, it’s like everything you will need from the inner to the outer. Like from your soul to your tech.

Renate (00:46:24) It’s like the boundaries are just the walls are getting knocked.

Abby (00:46:27) Down so you can create it. And I love that you incorporate that vision and that is why and honing, helping them to hone their voice and what makes them unique that’s so beautiful and so powerful.

Renate (00:46:38) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And especially, you know, working through all of those fears of being seen or being hurt and that it’s it is safe for us all to be heard and that our podcast will create a change in this life. And I believe there will be never enough podcasts out there. It’s the same with reading books or authors. There will be never enough authors out there. There’s always enough. When you’re shifting into this abundance mindset that you know there will be no competition, there’s much more collaboration possible.

Abby (00:47:20) I love that. And I was listening to your podcast intro, which I love. That was so many moments. I was like, Yes, yes, yes.

Renate (00:47:27) And and one.

Abby (00:47:30)  Part that I loved was when you said you have something to give and you know, because you’re alive. And I think a lot of women can feel that they don’t have something special to share or their voice is not worth sharing. And like, oh, what a heartbreaking thought, because they do and they’re gifts. Everyone’s gifts are so needed right now, especially the feminine way of being that, you know, the deep wisdom. I feel like it’s wanting to come back. So I love that you are helping to empower these people to share that with the world. It’s really beautiful.

Renate (00:48:06) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we do need to cut all this karmic baggage. We have to need this cut. We have to cut this comic cord through to our past and realize, you know, at this moment right now, we have a choice and we can create our life new. We can become a new person. Our past doesn’t determine our future. We always have a choice right now. And you can start right now and it’s never too late. You’re never too old to start anything. And you always have something to give. You always have something to share because why? Why would you be on this earth right now? With us now?

Abby (00:48:50) Yeah. Yes, love. It can give you a big high five from over here. That’s so beautiful. And I couldn’t agree more. Right. How can people find you if they want to work with you and learn more about you?

Renate (00:49:06) Yeah. So you can find my Instagram. I’m active on there. I’m called renatesophiamueller. So just my first, my middle, and my last name. Mirella is with you and then you can find me on Facebook. Renate Mueller But yeah, Instagram is where I mostly hang out and I have a link tree, so I have all the different links on there and my website is coming out as well. It’s called, so it’s super easy to find me, and yeah.

Abby (00:49:41) I love That. Thank you. That’s so great. And everyone goes check her out and go get your voice out there. The world needs that. So yeah. Thanks so much for being here or not.

Renate (00:49:51) Oh, you’re so welcome. Thank you so much. It was such a lovely conversation. I loved everything and thank you.


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21-Davina Palik

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Davina Palik

Davina Palik completed the Mentorship program last year and she shares with us her journey of healing, stepping into her medicine, and moving with her family from Quebec, Canada to Samara, Costa Rica, where she and her partner Daniel guide people through transformative breathwork sessions.

Connect with Davina:
Instagram: @davinakudish


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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind-Body Free Podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss, and today I am here with a friend who I’ve gotten to know from two different worlds, both photography and now healing too. So I’m with Davina Palik today, and she is a Breathwork facilitator, a journaling coach, and a retired destination wedding photographer. She’s the proud author of exactly one child’s book holder of a Bachelor’s Degree in Journalism, a mindful mama writer, share and path feminist, humanist, humanist.

Abby (00:00:33) Ask the recovering, perfectionist, creative, and storyteller. She shares her journey, which has included everything from journaling to breathwork to plant medicines, to show others that they can heal. She values vulnerability and authenticity and is called to hold a safe space to create and isn’t constantly expanding her toolbox to do this. Davina lives in Costa Rica with her partner Daniel, her son Max, and her daughter, Charlie. Welcome, Divina. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

Davina (00:01:05) Very excited to be here.

Abby (00:01:07) Yes. And this is so cool because we used to know each other in the world of wanting photography, like for so long ago. It seems like now. Yeah. Like another lifetime. And now you are living in another part of the world. Now you are doing this beautiful, healing work with your partner, Daniel. Tell us a little bit about your journey. What brought you here from where you were before?

Davina (00:01:41) My goodness, what a question.

Abby (00:01:45) All little questions today. Yeah.

Davina (00:01:48) Oh, my. I don’t even know where to begin. So many things. I mean, I had I kind of grew up with this big wound that needed healing. I think it was I was the I was sexually abused as a young girl. And I think I just. It’s my whole life. Part of my mission was to heal from that, and I think I just didn’t know it or didn’t consciously realize that. But so much of what? Presented itself in my life or was a result of these wounds. And yeah, I. I did a lot of healing without even consciously realizing it, but. Eventually through. Other things, I guess in life I realized I got into healing more intentionally, I guess.

Davina (00:02:43) As things came up and I was seeking something. Something more, something deeper. And I had struggled with depression for a long time. And I was looking for. More than just being on medication and that kind of found spirituality and ayahuasca through that and then eventually breathwork and that journaling was a big tool for me. So I used a lot of that and just kind of picked up all these tools along the way and eventually moved to Costa Rica, which was unexpected, but kind of I felt very called to this place and ended up here.

Davina (00:03:24) So the journey continues. We’re in a place now where people say that the town where we live called Samarra is a place where people come to heal. And again, I didn’t move here knowing that, but I see it in the people that I meet, people who are on similar journeys, the types of offerings that other people have intuitive folks who are meeting here who are helping me heal as well. And so yeah, that’s the overview, I guess. Yeah.

Abby (00:03:59) Yeah. Oh, man. And, and it’s wild because we were chatting a bit before and I was mentioning how last time we met like this online, just the two of us, it was like just before the mentorship started.

Davina (00:04:16) And it must have been about a year ago.

Abby (00:04:17) You’re still.

Davina (00:04:18) Doing.

Abby (00:04:19) About a year ago. Yeah. Yeah. And now you’re. You move from Montreal to Samarra. I didn’t know that. It’s a place people come to heal. That’s beautiful. It’s like, almost. Go ahead.

Davina (00:04:33) No, it’s something one of my friends who’s been here for ten years told me. She says there’s kind of like this energy here and that people come to feel.

Abby (00:04:46) Do you think that there’s like a calling for that right now in the world?

Davina (00:04:51) Yeah. I think I’m proof of that. I think. I didn’t think through the mentorship with you. One of the big lessons I received was that from my higher self essentially was that I had medicine to offer. And I remember having so much resistance to that being like, What do you mean? I don’t have any medicine to offer. I’m not special in any way. And then I got comfortable sharing more and more, and I use Instagram to share my experiences have been. And I’ve shared my healing journey from the sexual trauma on my website. And the more I share, the more people reach out to me with their own stories or just looking for someone to connect with.

Davina (00:05:44) And it’s almost every day that I have a message in my inbox from somebody who’s like, just relates to something that I’ve shared who just wants to connect or wants to share their own thing or wants to run something by me sometimes, you know, just it’s incredible. And I think I see it from these people who reach out to being and how much healing is a collective thing that we are searching for healing. And there are so many beautiful ways to do that. It doesn’t have to be just one road. And hopefully, I can show people that there are different tools and you don’t have to go to the Amazon and drink Ayahuasca either. So that is a marvelous tool. So yeah, it’s I see that there is indeed a need and I’m encouraged by how much people are seeking their healing and taking it into their own hands. And I think it’s something that we need.

Abby (00:06:43) Yeah. Did you feel? Like. As you mentioned, you’ve been sharing a lot of your journey and your healing path. And I remember, you know, not that long ago and still, sometimes it’s almost like there can be this feeling of taboo around not being like fully feeling fully perfect all the time. And I don’t know a single person that does this like shame around the concept of mental, emotional, and physical well-being. Did you find that it took courage for you to share, or is that something you were always comfortable with?

Davina (00:07:24) It’s a good question and I’m grateful for the opportunity to reflect on it now. I kind I think in a way I’ve always been comfortable sharing. Especially when it came to what happened to me as a child. It was some of the other things, maybe. Ways that I still struggle with things or that stuff that I. Feel is harder or has been harder to share. I put in my bio that I’m a recovering perfectionist and it’s something I struggle with a lot is like, what if I’m not seen as perfect? And I feel like the sexual trauma was always like, apart from me, in a way, separate from me. Like it was something that had happened to me, but that I didn’t feel like.

Davina (00:08:17) You know, I, I felt comfortable sharing it for that reason, I guess, whereas like the workings of my, into my inner mind and the ways maybe that it affected me, I would have been a little bit more hesitant to share because of how they might reflect on me, you know? Yeah. And even today, I have moments where I’m like Am I being in mine? Am I trying to protect some part of myself by not sharing this? And is it worth exploring that? And is it worth opening up to the world about this? Because someone could relate. And I feel like that is my medicine is being like, here I am and you’re welcome in this space, too. And if you relate to this, you’re not alone. Yeah.

Abby (00:09:04) That’s beautiful. And it’s. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Davina (00:09:07) No, I was just thinking about how you had said one time, like, all of me is welcome here. That was or all of you are welcome here. I feel like this came up in our mentorship. And it’s something I journaled about the other day and it came out, like, quite beautiful. I think I’m getting ready to share that one soon about how I’ll. Yeah, all of me is welcome here. I can face all these parts of me, the ugly parts, the spiritual parts, the parts that I think I’m supposed to be over by now. Surely I know better than this. And guilt. Shame, you know.

Davina (00:09:42) Greediness, like the stuff that’s the stuff that’s harder for me to share because it’s, you know, it’s the. The shadow parts, you know, but are harder to admit to. But the more we do that and in safe spaces and for me even publicly owning that I think there’s a lot of power in that. And they kind of that’s how you shed light on it and also how you connect to others who can relate.

Abby (00:10:13) Yeah, I think so too. I think that’s it’s wise and it’s really brave to do that. And it’s, you know when I think about social media and how it’s like this so often this highlight reel of the best version of ourselves and all of these apps to transform the way we look. And it’s like it feels like the antidote to that. Like just how real can I be in something I like that you mentioned could it help someone relate I like that as a question as like could this help someone relate and what they’re going through to feel less alone or with where they’re at? And was it Brené Brown that said, we all have shame and the less we talk about it, the more we have? And it’s just taking the shadow and bringing it. Yeah, we can bring the shadow into the light then. It may not be as scary as we once thought it was. It just takes some brave people to be the first to do that. And then someone else can say, Hey. Oh, yeah, me too. Oh, I thought that was just me. It wasn’t just.

Davina (00:11:17) Me.

Abby (00:11:19) Yeah. So you mentioned plant medicines. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Davina (00:11:25) No, sorry.

Abby (00:11:25) We have a bit of a delay.

Davina (00:11:26) It’s probably my Costa Rica Internet.

Abby (00:11:29) Oh, do we? That’s okay. That’s a good trade-off for being an amazing place. You had mentioned plant medicines being part of your healing journey and also how there are other ways to kind of access these healing states. Can you tell me a bit about what plant medicines were like for you and what you found afterward to continue healing?

Davina (00:11:57) Yeah. So for me, it was I who went in with so much fear. So much fear and the experience shed light on how much fear I have had and have around a lot of different things, trying new things, losing control. The list goes on and on. So that was one of the big, big lessons that I got from ayahuasca. I also got to see how far I had come on my healing journey with regards to the sexual abuse in that I got to heal. I had an experience where I witnessed the house where all of this had taken place. I was kind of floating above it and I got to with my love. And at first, it was very scary and it was like tightening around me. The energy felt very scary. And then. I realized that I had the power to release it and to give it love and to. It was in my control, essentially. And so I started giving love to the space and a garden, and I started visualizing this garden, growing over it.

Davina (00:13:13) And it was just beautiful, wild vines. And I just got to watch my masterpiece, what my love and my forgiveness and my intention of setting the space free, what I had been able to do. And that was just like one of the first things I experienced on the first night. One of the other nights, I got to see myself as a young child sitting on the couch with my grandfather while he was abusing me. The scene that I replayed in my head so many times is something that happened many times in my childhood, and I was witness to that. And instead of feeling sorry for my child self, I kind of was like, I know she’s going to be okay. And like, she’s, she’s good. Like, she’s got this. And then I saw him and felt compassion for him.

Davina (00:14:09) And to me that was huge. It just showed me how far I had come through all these other things I’ve done in my life to bring healing. To this event. And. That specific moment showed me that I had. Reached something very difficult to reach, which is to have compassion for the person who hurt you most. So that was a powerful experience. And. A lot of other stuff. I could probably go on for like four or 5 hours about all the things that happened during that week. But when I did that with medicine, when I came back, it was very difficult. Like I will say, I was not prepared for how hard it was. I went through like really tough depression, one of the hardest I’ve ever experienced. And I felt like I was still broken and something was wrong with me.

Davina (00:15:09) And Daniel was like, we had gone together and he was just I’ve never seen him so, like, elated and high on life and attracting all this beautiful energy and connection with people. He was just it was obnoxious to me about how great he seemed compared to how I felt that I was doing. And I was like, Would you please stop smiling all the time, you know? But no, thankfully, he knows how to hold space and was very supportive. But yeah, I just struggled a lot and it was short it was around that time that we came here to Costa Rica and ended up spending three and a half months only to realize that this is where we wanted to call home. And I think since that period, I haven’t this was a year ago now, is that right? Yea, yea, yea. I haven’t experienced the darkness of depression in the way that since then really that that deep darkness. I have a different relationship with it and I think that. The magic that I witnessed with ayahuasca and afterward through different things like breathwork and other things that we’re able to get me to that state, I feel like I can’t.

Davina (00:16:30) Go back to such deep darkness when I’ve seen so much light. Because I know that I’m not made of darkness. And I think that was my fear before. That’s something I kind of believed ever since I was a child. But there was so much darkness in me and to have connected with the light allowed me to balance that out. We can have darkness, we can have a shadow, we can experience it. But it’s not what we are made of. And I feel like now that I know that through my lived experiences, something that nobody could ever take away from me, as much as someone might want to debate me on it, you know, it’s like I just I know what’s true for me. And one of the things we did a lot during the mentorship with you was to connect to that our higher self and go deep within to find what truth is and what truth feels like. And now that I have that tool, I feel like it’s a lot easier to use that voice to guide me versus, you know, all the other archetypes and ego and all these other things that try to get in the way.

Abby (00:17:36) Hmm. That’s so beautiful. There are so many things I want to speak to about what you just said. So with. And with the light in the dark. It’s it’s interesting. So I feel like I mean I was taught in Chinese medicine is the yin yang symbol where there’s the light side and the dark side and there’s the thought of light in the dark. And I thought of dark and the light. And they said, there’s always light with dark and always dark with light. And I think so much of it is just forgetting the light and remembering the light inside of us that we’re made of. I love that you said something that now that you’ve experienced can’t be taken from you. It’s such an interesting thing that to me that sounds like it’s integration. It’s like not a concept in your mind, but it’s something that you experience and knows for yourself.

Davina (00:18:27) No. And I think that very I think that right away after the experience, the ego does try to get in the way and the mind tries to get in the way. Like maybe it was all bullshit. Maybe, you know, yeah, you made that up or it’s just like a dream or like, you know, and then you try to explain it to people and they don’t necessarily understand. So you do try to like it. Find reasons why. Maybe it wasn’t what you thought it was at the moment. And that’s why I think that other practices can be really helpful, like getting back to a place of bliss during breathwork that I’ve experienced with ayahuasca was like, Oh, remember this state, it is true, it exists. And dreams. Dreams are so powerful too. And I’ve spoken to me so much since my ayahuasca experience and all of these things come into to remind me at least, that that it was was real.

Abby (00:19:29) Yeah. I remember that, though, for sure. And it’s and also being in a society where a lot of people are not in that place yet or haven’t known don’t necessarily believe in that world beyond the obvious physical things in front of us. And you mentioned coming back to those states of bliss with Breathwork. So what has that been like for you?

Davina (00:19:57) It’s so cool that Breathwork is such a big part of my life now because I didn’t choose it. And that’s like something I was to it’s ironic. I was seeking to surrender more, which sounds like a bit of an oxymoron. I wanted to be able to surrender more in my life and to let things in. And I didn’t know what that even looked like. What do you mean? Like you don’t make choices and then push towards achieving your goals. It just went against everything I have kind of done up until now in my life. And this just Breathwork was such a powerful practice for me and I have had such great experiences with it. And then I saw just one day I was like, I don’t know, maybe I would like to be facilitated in this. Maybe something I would like to be reading.

Davina (00:20:44) It seems like it could suit me well and something nobody is doing out here in Samara. So I went online to see different things and there was this one class, it was self-paced, which is really what I was looking for because I wanted to take my time. I was feeling very introverted at that moment and I wanted to have something I could work on on my own, kind of like a retreat and work on this thing. And a lot of these other classes were in-person training and stuff, so I thought that would lend itself well to me, and it just seemed like it came into my awareness for a reason. So I signed up. It was a six-month program.

Davina (00:21:23) I finished it in like maybe three months. I was so into it. And then Daniel around the same time did his training, but he did something different. He did a specific method of breathwork, whereas I did a more general training. And then we started to like it was funny because even though we started at different times and worked on them at different times, we both of us got our official certification letter on the same day, which was a total coincidence and interesting.

Abby (00:21:52) Yeah.

Davina (00:21:53) And then we started doing these ceremonies together. We’re doing the method that he was trained in, which is called Elemental Rhythm, and I kind of support him. I lead the opening meditations, I do the connecting to the light that you taught us in our mentorship. So get everybody nice and relaxed. And then moving into this, this practice, it’s very active breathwork so you’re doing these heavy, deep breathing, different patterns of it, and we guide along with music and then some breath holds. And then the whole experience, the whole breathing experience lasts only about 30 minutes, but the whole experience is about 2 hours because there’s so there’s a long meditation at the end and some integration time and then we share.

Davina (00:22:46) And it’s just incredible to see the experiences that people can have. It’s just and here in Samara, you know, people are here to heal. We see it a lot through the people who pop into our class. And we have regulars already, even though we’ve only been doing this like several times now, people who come every week and who have a different experience every week, and there’s a lot of people who come out here to experience plant medicine as well. So they might do, Oh, some people facilitate blood flow out here. And so they go to this complete ego, death and reaching, you know, like a near-death experience. And then they come to Breathwork a couple of days later and they’re able to go back to that place just through Breathwork, which is incredible. And I’ve seen people have memories of childhood memories come up, relationships that are being called to be healed, that are coming up, and the memories that they’re being shown related to somebody in their life with who they then feel called to reconnect with or. You name it.

Davina (00:23:49) I feel like we’ve already seen it and we’ve only just begun. So it’s such a beautiful, powerful practice for accessing all kinds of things. And recently my parents came to visit and then my sister and her partner came to visit. And so my dad, who I would have never imagined would be interested, came to one of our classes. And so, yeah, it was incredible to have him like come and do the breathing. And I saw him working hard and it was the first class that I assisted Daniel with, which was cool. And then afterward, like even my mom was like, Wow, he’s so white, he feels like a different person. And I was like, Yeah, transformation comes in all sorts of different ways. He might not have had much to report on in terms of the experience, but something happened because I could feel it. We could all feel it just being around him and yeah, it’s cool to be able to share that now with people in my life as well.

Abby (00:24:46) That’s so beautiful. What a beautiful blend with the breathwork that Daniel is leading them through. And then this extra layer of intention and connection sounds like integration afterward as well that you help guide them through. It’s incredible and so beautiful to be able to offer that to people in your life, especially people who you wouldn’t expect. I find it, you know, it can be so surprising who shows up and is ready to do the work once you start offering it to people?

Davina (00:25:12) Yeah.

Abby (00:25:14) Ha. Yeah, I remember doing I did a hollow Tropic Breathwork class like I attended one a few years ago, and I just did the breathing, the circular breathing process and then all my hands, like, tightened up. And I felt all of this tension in my body and all this tingling. And then I just a lovely facilitator came over and she did this like Reiki tuning sound and like, put her hand on my neck and all this, like, deep, deep wail of a cry just came out for a couple of minutes and I was like, too in it to care to be embarrassed about everybody else in the room hearing it. But afterward, I just felt so much lighter and the whole rest of that week I felt like a different person. And my husband Dave was saying, you, you were better. When you go to that, you should go more. I don’t think they’re offering it here anymore, unfortunately, but it was amazing. It was so transformative. And it was something that was just about breathing and being in my body and moving all the stuff that was held in my body.

Davina (00:26:15) is Pretty incredible. It is like there’s when I’m guiding, I’m often telling people like, see how if you’re facing resistance, see what’s on the other side of that, because it is a safe practice for doing that. And you’re like, Oh, it’s just breathing. But then you do face like so many, your ego’s trying to protect you, right? It’s like, don’t go there. You shouldn’t open that door, you should stop breathing or you should go back to your regular breathing. And all of this comes up. And even to me, what you’re describing, the like the hands and all that being super tight, we see that all the time, these little like lobster claws just because the PH levels change in your body. So it causes that. And I find it like oddly cute when people are like their little tiny hands.

Abby (00:27:03) Lobsters, little.

Davina (00:27:05) Insect arms and yeah, it can be very scary for people, too, which is why it’s helpful to have we always brief people on the kinds of things they can expect. Yeah, it’s incredible. What you can do with just your body and the emotional release that you’re just describing is so common for me. I don’t think I’ve ever done breathwork and not like cried a ton or released some kind of in some kind of emotional way. I’ve also experienced that with ice baths, which is probably one of my least favorite things to do, but also one of the most powerful things that I can do. It’s literally like 5 minutes to release so much. And I also was able to bring my sister and her partner sub to the ice baths that we do here with the community.

Davina (00:27:54) A lot of people come to Breathwork, go to the ice baths as well, and a lot of different great offerings around here. And the ice bath. The first time I did it here, it was. I went in and I was like my whole body. I got the technique from being in that ice bath. My whole body was frozen, you know, couldn’t move at all. And I was just focused on my breathing. It’s like I went into a trance or something. And then when my body finally relaxed, I just burst out in tears. But like a child, like this deep, deep sob. And one thing that’s helpful for me with this stuff and something that I will guide people in Breathwork as well, is that we don’t always need to have a story around these emotions. Sometimes they’re just stored in there. They might not even be ours.

Davina (00:28:39) They just what we have to do, what our job is essentially is to be present with them and let them pass, you know, and breathwork ice baths. All of these types of things are great practices for just releasing that stored energy, those emotions that just show up. They just want to be felt. And yeah, there doesn’t have to be a story around it. Like, Oh, why am I sad? Or Why am I so angry? The last ice bath  I did. I was so mad. I had so much anger. I went in and I was like, I’m mad. I have to do this. I don’t want to be here. And the facilitator who helps us through the ice baths, she’s like, Let it out, let it out. Just be you. And I was just like, wow, like screaming in the ice baths and felt amazing. And then when I got out, I was like a new person. Yeah, that’s amazing.

Abby (00:29:24) Very powerful. It is. It is amazing. It’s like in the work that I’ve done over the years, I felt I feel like. Maybe the number one, one of the key things that contribute to this depression and fatigue and illness, it’s just all of the emotions that didn’t get to be felt that are still held in the body. And if we can find more ways of getting those out, and especially without even needing to attach to the story like that, can just we can look at it and analyze it in a package, but sometimes we just got to heal and we got to get it out. We need to do it as fast as possible so that we can start feeling a lot lighter and a lot freer. And it’s something that I don’t think we talk about a lot in our society.

Abby (00:30:08) And so it can even seem surprising to me, too, or a friend of mine gave me a massage one time and I had like this chronic jaw, like this TMJ tension, and she massages all the stuff out of my jaw and I felt great. And I went to bed that night and I woke up in the middle of the night just furious, like, for no reason, but just so angry. And she worked all this tension out of my jaw, like, down to my heart, where I could feel and process it. There’s no story behind it. It was just like, Oh, this is all the stuff that was sitting in my body. And it’s I think if there are as many avenues as we can find to release that effectively, then that’s so powerful and it’s so healing and it’s so preventative for other possible issues down the road.

Davina (00:30:53) Yeah. All of that gets stuck in the body if it’s not expressed. My friend here is a massage therapist, a yoga teacher, and a lightworker. She’s extremely connected and I’ve had the privilege of being at her table a couple of times. She does like a34 hour massage. It’s incredible. And she works through it. Yeah, she’ll be like, Here’s your grandmother’s anger. You know, she’ll find so much stuff in the body. And it’s like, really, she really reads the body and finds things that are stuck in there, and she’ll work as long as she needs to on certain parts. Yeah, I’ve had this chronic shoulder issue for years now and I’m constantly trying to work with it to be like, What’s in here? What’s stuck in here? I’m still working on it. I still don’t know all the answers. I keep having these like ideas of what it is, and sometimes I’m like, Maybe I don’t need to think about it. I just need to feel through it. And sometimes I’m like, No, I need to break this down. And so it teaches me a lot, this injury, and yeah, always unpacking new layers of it until hopefully it will get healed eventually for good.

Abby (00:32:06) Yeah. I have faith that I will. For you, it’s just part of the journey, right? Continuing to unpack and learn. I find that true. Like I’m learning more and more every day and feeling more and more called to integrate lessons physically into the body.

Davina (00:32:21) Yeah. I believe that if it’s still there, it’s because it still has more to teach me. So I just need to keep. Keep listening and keep paying attention. Keep being with it.

Abby (00:32:31) Exactly. Yeah, it’s a great perspective. I kind of see it similar. I see it as a feedback system of like, okay, my body’s giving me a message or it needs my attention in some way. And whether that be feeling emotion or integrating something with breath or movement or awareness or life path, as you guys went to this whole other part of the world to kind of sounds like answer this sort of calling. I feel like that’s a big part of it too, is just permitting yourself to do what you feel like you’re meant to be doing and where you’re meant to be doing it.

Davina (00:33:04) Yeah. There are so many excuses we can come up with to come up with, to do, or to not do the things that sometimes we’re called to do. This is a huge leap of faith in so many ways. I’ve had so much emotion come up around this move. And, you know, I was attending the mentorship during the move, right when we’re preparing to leave. And when we arrived here, the mentorship kind of fell right in the middle of all of that, which was wonderful for me. It meant I had a lot of support from all the women in the group. But yeah, so much came up, you know, it was, What am I doing? Why I’m imploding my life, you know, why would I step into the unknown like this?

Davina (00:33:43) I still have moments of really, really being homesick, of missing the house that we lived in and grieving the fact that, like, our life will never be in that house again. And all those memories of the kids being Little Charlie are my almost six-year-old. She was brought home to that house and. Yeah. It’s just really there’s a lot of sadness around the passage of time because it’s such a house is such an anchor for those five years of our life, which happened to be the first five years of Charlie’s life, too. And I still grieve a little bit for that house. And there are so many layers around that because I have I recognize the privilege that I had to be able to sell the house. When we did, nobody kicked us out. We weren’t forced out of the house for financial reasons. If anything, we got to sell at the height of the market, probably.

Davina (00:34:37) I never thought we’d be able to sell the house for what we were able to sell it for, but it was a result of that time. And, you know, all of these things kind of ushered us out of there being like, Oh, do you want me to make it easier for you? Like, here’s a good financial amount for your house and you want me to make it easier for you? It’ll sell in four days. And, you know, here’s a beautiful town that you love. Oh, and the town also has a French school, which was important for you. Like, you know, all of these little things that just lined up and community, my goodness, like I just said, the word community. And I got chills up in my arms because I didn’t know that I was moving here for the community. But like, that is what we got here. Like, it makes me emotional because it’s so special and it’s something I’ve never experienced before. Like, I didn’t know I was missing it until we came here.

Davina (00:35:25) It’s we’ve been here almost seven months now, and I have probably 12 people who I could call if I needed them right now who would show up here for me, you know, like emotionally or physically or picking up our kids because we can’t make it or lending us their car because our car broke down, like or, you know, if I just really needed someone to talk to, it’s just. I feel like we have these beautiful relationships with people here, but I’m so grateful for people from all over the world and people who are born and raised here in Costa Rica I’ve had the pleasure of making all kinds of different friendships. Yeah. It’s something so, so special. And when my family was here visiting, I felt really lucky that they got to witness that.

Davina (00:36:10) And even though it’s something like my parents couldn’t see themselves doing, moving to Costa Rica, they kind of thing we’re crazy to have done this. I think part of them were nuts, but they also told us, like, we get it, I can see you and we see the kids and how you’re thriving here and these beautiful people and your life. And we get it. And that was I didn’t need that, but it was nice to be able to share that with them and to have them see it.

Abby (00:36:35) Yeah. Wow, it is so beautiful. And something, where that came to mind earlier when you were talking about kind of holding that space of what you touched, was real like with adult will come up of like, oh did you make that all up? That was all in your mind. But if you can find community and people who will be in that space with you and share that with you, I find it can be so affirming and nurturing to help grow that part of you and such a beautiful heart connection.

Davina (00:37:09) Yeah. And I feel like I was sharing this with Daniel the other day. I feel like a lot of the people who we’ve met here, they see me and like, I don’t know how to express this. I feel like I like how they see me. I like the reflection of me that I see through them. Hmm. Like there’s a friend I made here. Who? I sat with her. We had this, like, four-hour coffee, and she facilitates Rufo, and she just talked about me, like, the way she sees me. And I was just, like, in awe that I got to receive that from her with such a beautiful gift, you know? She’s like, I see how real you are and how pure your heart is.

Davina (00:37:58) And she shared a lot of things with me that were very difficult for her to share in the past, but she’s like, I feel very open with you and I want to share this with you. And it’s like, I got to see again, like the medicine that I have to give. I got to see it reflected through how she was able to receive it if that makes sense. And I think I’ve been somebody who for a long time I had this idea that I. It was very ordinary and had nothing special to offer. And I was broken and needed so much healing and so much caretaking and all of this. And then being like, No, actually a lot of what I’ve lived is part of what makes me have this medicine.

Davina (00:38:42) And if it’s nothing else but to hold space for people so they can share something that they’ve never shared with anyone before, that is extremely valuable. I don’t have to be some kind of like guru or medicine woman, you know, and it doesn’t have to look a certain way. And I’m finding ways that I just existing and doing continuing to do the work that I’m doing for myself and coming from a very humble place where my ego has a healthy reality check regularly, you know, is allowing me to to get out of my way and to just be of service in the way that I think that I’m probably meant to, you know.

Abby (00:39:26) Yeah. Yeah. That’s such a beautiful journey to go on and kind of realize that you do have these things to share. And I feel like we can get caught in our heads of having to look a certain way or be a certain format. But like when you were talking about just being so open and connecting with people and talking about the struggles you’ve been through and helping them to relate and share their story back to you. That in itself is medicine and there are so many other kinds. It’s just so many ways that you share gifts with the world. It’s beautiful to see.

Davina (00:40:00) Yeah. I think of all the ways that I tried to prevent myself from doing that to, you know, it’s like it kind of makes me laugh because I hosted this journaling group recently. It was a six-week kind of program that came to me very intuitively. I just sat down. I was, like, battling in my mind with it for a long time. It was this idea I had for so long. I feel like I talked about it even during the mentorship, like this idea of like wanting to because journaling has been so powerful for me and I kept getting these like downloads of like, here’s a good topic that you could explore. And I was like, No, no, but I’m not the person to do that. That’s not for me. That’s not for me.

Davina (00:40:36) And then eventually I was like, What if it was for me? What would that look like? And then I just allowed myself to go there. I wrote it all down, I fleshed it out. I, you know, and at the end of it, I was like, this is good. I think I think this could be helpful for people. A lot of the journaling prompts and the themes are helpful to explore and were things that I had done myself and have found helpful. And then I just put it out there to see if anyone was interested. And in 24 hours I had to like close my page down because I had so many people like I wanted to do it.

Davina (00:41:09) And then I did it. But it took me a while to like to announce the dates because there was more fear there. There was more, you know, maybe not. You and my inner saboteur were so loud. You had so many reasons why I shouldn’t do it and I wasn’t the right person to do it, etc., etc. Why? I needed more time, I needed more training, and I needed to read more books. You know, so many reasons. And then I was like, You know what? I can hold space. I know how to hold space. And these prompts are good and they’ve helped me. And these people are here and they, they applied and they want to do this with me, so let’s just do it. And I led the group by explaining how much resistance I had met.

Davina (00:41:51) And so I started it by being very honest. I was like, Here are all the things my inner saboteur had to say before I had to shut that voice down and decide to do it anyway. And it was beautiful. It was so beautiful. I had women from all over the world and it was incredible meeting with them every week and seeing, you know, so much coming out of them and how much they showed up to give it they’re all. It was like, here are masks coming down. Here’s what I’m struggling with. Like, you won’t see this on social media, but this is what’s going on behind the scenes. It was just beautiful. I had chills every week on that, on those calls. I cried every week. It was I wasn’t a perfect leader. I didn’t always know the right thing to say. I often cried at people’s stories. I’m sure if I was like doing life coaching, I would have broken all the rules. But.

Davina (00:42:46) But I was me. And I think that was. I did the best I could. And, and it was a beautiful conversation and everyone got a lot out of it. I had beautiful feedback and then I started hosting them here in Samara as well with a small group of women, same thing, this sisterhood, and supportive circle and allowing the journaling to guide the conversations. And it was incredible. And I was like, I could have just listened to that voice and not done this and why, you know, why would I have done that? So I try to keep that in mind. Now, when things come through, something that I’m inspired to do, it’s where is this coming from? Like, where is this creative idea coming from? And oftentimes it’s a battle too. To make sure that the ego and the saboteur voices are contributing something helpful, you know, because sometimes maybe they do have something helpful to say. Maybe it’s true that I don’t know a lot about that topic.

Davina (00:43:50) Maybe that’s one I should stay away from this time. Or maybe that’s something I’d want to learn more about before I venture down that road. That’s helpful feedback. But being like, Don’t do this. Keep yourself safe. Nobody wants to learn from you or whatever. Those are not helpful voices. So I can better detect now where they’re coming from. And I think humility is a big part of it, too. Like mine. My ego needs to be really, really in check. I’m not doing anything that I do if I think I’m doing it for some kind of, like, fame or fortune. Not that there’s fame or fortune in any of the stuff I’ve been doing, but that’s something I need to pay attention to. Awareness? I think what it is for me.

Abby (00:44:35) Yeah. Yeah, it’s I think that when you mentioned earlier how you opened up this journaling class by saying these are all the things that I came up against, this is all the resistance I had to even do this. It’s like it opens up the floor to say, you can be this real here. It’s okay. We don’t have to pretend. And it just takes one person having that level of courage. And that’s such a beautiful space to hold for people, for them to feel, Oh, it’s okay, we’re all equals and it’s safe to show these parts of me here. And just by the way, I also cry when people share their stories. I don’t know if there’s an official you’re not supposed to cry rule, but I don’t follow that if they’re either. You’re just being real and being a person and connecting from the heart, you know? It’s beautiful.

Davina (00:45:26) I could never be any other way, honestly. I just couldn’t. I’ve always been extremely sensitive and Charlie is a little copy of me when it comes to that. She is super sensitive. We watch a Disney movie and we’ll like sob together, you know, just very empathetic.

Abby (00:45:42) It’s a superpower because it helps you hold space and feel what other people are feeling. And I remember, I think I couldn’t be any other way either or I could try, but I mean, miserable trying. I remember listening to Oprah talk at one point about how she was, like, starting as this news anchor, but she was using all these personal stories and reactions and it was seen as not professional. And it wasn’t like she wasn’t doing it right or doing it well. And then she had this thought like, Well, wait a minute, maybe that is what makes me great. I just pivot it and find a place where she was allowed to be here and made a whole bunch of magic. I feel like it’s just that’s not wrong. It’s just where can I connect in a way that this is a gift?

Davina (00:46:26) Yeah. That’s such a beautiful way of looking at it. Where can I connect? In a place where this is a gift? Yeah. I don’t know if that are the exact words. I tried to repeat it exactly, but. Yeah, it’s really. That’s so beautiful. And that is totally what made Oprah so good. You know, that’s what we love about her. That’s how she was so real. And yeah, I wouldn’t want to be any other way. I mean, it’s that’s how I connect to people too, is I think that’s how they feel like they can share with me because I can hold that space and that I can. I can feel their emotions at least. Yeah.

Abby (00:47:04) Yeah. Help them feel seen. That’s a really powerful thing to be seen in that way and that heart space. So. So are you offering these journaling sessions now? Are you and Daniel doing Breathwork together now? So what’s next for you guys?

Davina (00:47:24) So we are continuing the Breathwork classes or the sessions here. We’re about to leave. We’re leaving for three weeks. At the end of the week, we’re going to the US. We’re doing a little road trip with the kids. They’re off school for a bit, so we figured we’d have a little adventure, which we’re very excited about. And then when we come back, we’ll resume our breathwork sessions. I’m putting it together I’m between journaling classes right now. I just wrapped up my first one, the one online and the one in person. And so I’m kind of figuring out how I want to structure the next ones, but I’m also working on something a little different. I guess it’s another one that I’ve been having a lot of voices getting involved in the process.

Davina (00:48:18) It’s called a return to wholeness, and it’s continuing on the path of healing, on the theme of healing, which is what I think I can I can never get away from, just forever. What I will be doing, I think. But the idea of this return to wholeness is to kind of. Forming a deeper connection to ourselves through different practices. I’ll have recorded Breathwork meditations and sessions. We’ll do like journaling prompts. We’ll do worksheets and different topics to explore and meet. I think I’ll probably do it. That’ll be optional to do it in a self-paced, self-led kind of situation. And also I’ll want to do one with live calls because I enjoy those a lot. And the power of connecting to other people in this container, as I’ve seen firsthand how powerful that is. And so I’ll have that component available.

Davina (00:49:22) And yeah, I’m still kind of like fleshing it out and exploring what that means, trying to spend time with like the most aligned in alignment version of myself so that the ideas are coming from, from that part of me. Yeah. That’s one thing I got to, got to practice through the mentorship was connecting to that part of me and listening to what that part has to say. I think like you kind of touched on this before, but the things I’m trying to create now, I want them to come from like a humble place and from that place of alignment. And it’s more asking myself, like, how is this going to serve others? Versus like me needing to control things to be a certain way or me needing to come off a certain way.

Davina (00:50:15) And that’s I think that’s. I needed to go through a lot of this other stuff to get to that place where I can even be aware of the difference between those voices. Yeah. They’re still there. The voices are still there. But I have a better relationship with them maybe. And I can identify them better. Hmm.

Abby (00:50:39) Beautiful. Yeah. And they, like, they don’t get to run the show anymore, it sounds like.

Davina (00:50:45) Exactly. Yeah.

Abby (00:50:48) So if for the people out there. Who is working through their fear, because you had mentioned that was a big part of the beginning of your healing journey with ayahuasca was moving through this fear this kind of fear of the unknown, this desire to control that, and then stepping into compassion and know so much you’ve been through. So there are people who are on their path and they’re confronting these kinds of things. What would you want them to know?

Davina (00:51:23) I’m. There’s a difference between fear and danger. So, you know, we can look like we think we’re in danger. But remembering that just because it feels scary doesn’t mean it’s something you’re incapable of. It’s a very simple lesson, but ayahuasca repeated to me over and over again, You can do hard things, which is I think there’s a children’s book named that like very basic. But yeah, you can do hard things and sometimes do breathwork I’ll say that to people, just remembering that the boundaries of our comfort zone can be stretched and it can be scary. But it also doesn’t have to be like that. Karate chopping them down. You can stretch them gently and it can be a process. And, you know, there’s a place for conquering fear in a way that’s still it will. It’s scary. Conquering fear is scary, but it can still be done at your own pace. And there’s still a way to do that while respecting what you’re ready for.

Davina (00:52:33) And also that there are a lot of practices to get you comfortable, you know, with fear, which sounds ironic, comfortable with fear, but or to practice that, you know, conquering fear is a practice. And if you’re able to find ways to face fear and to go beyond fear regularly in a way that’s safe and controlled, like ice baths, like Breathwork, those are two very powerful practices we’ve talked about that I personally just really connect to. Then other stuff doesn’t feel as scary anymore. You train yourself to know that you are capable of facing fear and that you’re stronger than you think. Hmm.

Abby (00:53:18) That’s beautiful. Where can people find you, Davina, if they want to learn more about the work you do?

Davina (00:53:25) Yeah. So my website is constantly a work in progress, but I try to post there and the things that I’m doing and I post some of my journaling entries there and try to continue sharing there on Instagram. I’m @Davinakudish. Could I eventually I will probably change back to there too. But for now, I’m still at Kudish, which is my partner’s last name. And yeah, those are the two, the two places. So. Yeah.

Abby (00:54:04) So. Well, thank you for sharing your journey, and thank you for your openness and authenticity, and integrity in it. And it’s I, I can feel how much it’s reaching out and helping other people and we can’t know how much more that will ripple out now and in the future. So really beautiful work you’re doing.

Davina (00:54:24) Thank you. Thanks for having this conversation with me and also for everything that I’ve gotten from having you as my mentor. It’s been I’m still every day continuing to unpack some of what we explored. And I’m grateful for that.

Abby (00:54:42) I think you it’s so much fun. And you were talking earlier about, like, needing to feel prepared and those things that were coming up. It’s like, I feel like every class is like an adventure. Like, I’ll show something, but I don’t know what’s going to how people are going to respond. And that’s part of what makes it so interesting, is this like dynamic alive thing. And I’m guessing for your what you teach to like you can’t know how people are going to show up or what’s going to come up for them. But that’s part of the adventure. It’s a beautiful thing you get to hold space for.

Davina (00:55:15) And that’s been a huge place for me to face fear. That fear of how am I going to come off and are they going to think I’m terrible at this and being like, no, I trust my intuition. I trust the flow. And yeah, I can only do my best and show up as mine. My most aligned self and give myself grace when it’s not perfect and yeah.

Abby (00:55:59) Absolutely. Thank you. th


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Jeanette Lee: Chinese Energetic Medicine

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Jeanette Lee: Chinese Energetic Medicine

In episode 20 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, Jeanette Lee shares his journey of Chinese Energetic Medicine and how she works with the principles of Traditional Chinese Medicine, energy healing, and personalized qigong prescription exercises to help her clients heal from chronic physical conditions. 

Jeanette has helped me tremendously in my own healing journey and I’m proud to introduce as the newest team member of Mind Body Free, where she is supporting students in the Mentorship Program with Qigong as well as offering private Chinese Energetic Medicine treatments

This episode is for anyone struggling with chronic fatigue, pain, digestive issues, reproductive issues, cancer, or any other physical condition that’s been affecting your quality of life. As well as anyone wanting to learn more about energy work and how to feel your own energy.

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I am here with my friend Jeanette Lee. I met Jeanette many years ago when we were studying shamanic Chinese medicine and medical qigong together. And it’s been so fun to go in our directions and I’m going to delve into the world of shamanic healing. And Jeanette is amazing at Chinese energetic medicine and supporting people with physical conditions, and I’m excited to introduce you to her today because she is just a wealth of information, so much knowledge, and just so light-hearted and fun to connect with.

Abby (00:00:42) And she’s been working with me in the mentorship program. She’s been helping the students connect with their energy field, and strengthen their energy field through qigong, through different energy treatments. And she’s helped me so much. She just kind of showed up as this angel who saw one of my posts on Facebook saying, hey, I’m going through all of this Candida stuff. And she reached out and she said, Hey, I want to work with you. I want to do sessions with you. And I was like, Yeah, that would be great. And so it’s been a huge difference. I’ve been doing these specialized exercises she’s given me.

Abby (00:01:17) We’ve done lots of one on one sessions together, and I’m regaining my energy bit by bit and feeling so much better about life and my body and everything. And it’s just so nice to have her in the community, to have her support me personally, and also to have her in the mentorship supporting our lovely students there. So welcome, Jeanette. Thank you for being here.

Jeanette (00:01:38) Thanks, Abby.

Abby (00:01:43) You are welcome, my friend. So can you give me a little bit of background about you? I know that you had mentioned that you grew up learning about herbs and food as medicine and creating balance in the body. Like, can you tell me a little bit about your background?

Jeanette (00:02:03) I grew up in a very traditional Chinese family and traditional Chinese families, herbs and energy, and Chinese medicine. It’s almost part of your daily life because whatever you eat has to be for the season for certain conditions. Just as an example, my mother always cooked soup as she would. Literally. It’s called boil herbal soup in Chinese, and it would be depending on the season, it would be depending on if somebody was sick with the flu or the cold in the house. She would make specific soups, say, with asparagus and various other roots and goji berry, etc., and that’s to support the health of her children and her family. If we, for example, eat out, we always eat out in Chinese restaurants.

Jeanette (00:03:03) There was no such thing as eating at McDonald’s for us. We were a staunch Chinese family. So of course when you eat in Chinese restaurants, the food is always really rich. So there’s a term in Chinese, it’s called I’ll say it in Cantonese. So she would always if we ate in a Chinese restaurant and we brought leftovers home and little baggies, we ate that for a day or two. She would always make another dinner afterward that would address that rich richness in the diet to help your body balance. So it’s part of the traditional meal. And of course, if you’re helping in the kitchen, all the kids had to help in the kitchen. You had to learn about the preparation of foods and what goes with what and what you should never have. Like, for example, you never put garlic in Chinese soup. Never, ever, ever. It’s a bad thing.

Abby (00:04:06) You know that.

Jeanette (00:04:09) Sometimes you put ginger in, but not very often. If it’s a warming soup, you use ginger. But honestly, never use accurate vegetables in soups at all because they’re overstimulating and they’re not calming. They also affect your lungs in certain ways. So there’s I mean, you only learn this if you’re growing up in a Chinese family and you’re in the kitchen cooking or chopping. In my case, I chopped everything. Yeah, I was on food prep duty.

Abby (00:04:50) That’s amazing. I wish I had. Can we have it? We all have one of your moms. Be so. Incredible growing up and the fact that you made a second meal to address the richness of the going out meal, that’s just that’s a dedicated woman. That’s beautiful.

Jeanette (00:05:05) I don’t know if in today’s world some Chinese families are as traditional or as observant with what their dietary intake is because it’s cultural. It’s very much cultural and it’s like it goes with the seasons or it goes with the month. For example, in the springtime, it’s liver foods that you would eat. So you would eat lots of fresh greens, especially brassicas green brassicas because of the vitamin C and some of the other antioxidants and everything good for your liver. There are other things that you probably do for your liver, and I’m not sure. I think it’s called Golden Thread. Not sure, but that’s another thing that you would eat. There are also other things like helping to balance or clean your liver out.

Abby (00:06:04) What kind of things would you do to help balance or clean out your liver? Because I know springtime is the liver season. So yeah, along with eating the greens and the brassicas, what could you do to help your liver?

Jeanette (00:06:17) In the Western diet? I would say. And Western herbs I would say every morning when you get up, the first thing you do is you drink a glass of water, a full glass of water. Sometime during the day, you should probably drink water with lemon juice. Maybe a quarter or a half of lemon juice in. And just from my own learning experience. You should always drink lemon juice with a straw so that you don’t damage your teeth.

Abby (00:06:51) And we also had that learning experience. Unfortunately.

Jeanette (00:06:55) This is my group saying never drink lemon juice, drink it out of a straw.

Abby (00:07:00) My animals have taught me that lesson.

Jeanette (00:07:05) So other herbs that you could dandelion greens in fresh salads or even lightly steam because fresh salads aren’t the greatest for you. Based on Chinese medicine, you should always have things warm, slightly warm, or cooked, because it does harm them. It harms your spleen. So when I say green, when you eat greens, you should probably just have them lightly steamed. If you like having salads, then that way it will just slightly wilt, and then you can still have dressing and everything on them. A western herb that’s good for your liver is milk vessel. That’s another one that helps to clean and support your liver.

Abby (00:07:55) Nice. So I tend to avoid, like, raw vegetables that are hard on the spleen. So the spleen and the stomach are connected. So spleens are kind of all about digestion. And then I think I have heard it before is kind of like it’s a cauldron, like a digestive fire. So if we put it in icy cold water and it’s going to, it’s not going to work as well. Is that right? Yeah.

Jeanette (00:08:19) slows it. It shocks the spleen and it shocks the stomach to have cold, cold things in their stomach. And when you hit cold things contract. And then the juices don’t flow. So what they say in Chinese medicine is that it damages the actual spleen key itself. So once your spleen starts to. Lower. It causes all sorts of problems in the body. So once you’re deficient, typically the spleen is the organ system that controls the muscles. So once you’re spleen deficient, you’ll find that your muscles will weaken.

Jeanette (00:09:11) You may have extreme deficiencies, you may have diarrhea. Or on the other hand, your stomach energy may tend to flare up because the spleen is not there anchoring it, and your stomach energy may tend to flare up. So then you have acid reflux, and you have constant burping. Another thing that may happen is dampness. It can be because the spleen qi is unable to move, and dampness may start creeping into the body.

Abby (00:09:43) You describe what dampness is.

Jeanette (00:09:46) Dampness is the liquids in your body and they’re different from what you would think they are. For example, if you were to just scrape your skin, just skin yourself, you’ll see just not deep enough to hit the blood layer. But just on the surface, you’ll see a little bit of liquid that comes out of there. That’s part of the body system of liquid. You also get dampness in terms of your tissues holding a little bit of excess liquid or water. You’ll have dampness that accumulates because there’s not enough cheese to move. That water or that liquid.

Jeanette (00:10:32) And as soon as water or liquid stays in one spot, then it tends to I guess the term might be coagulated or it will lose and it will thicken with extreme dampness. It will turn flammable. And phlegm is the root of many, many issues in the body, including arthritis, gout, and even cancers.

Abby (00:11:02) Yeah,  Dampness is one that I’ve been working with and it is a mofo to clear out. It takes longer than the other ones.

Jeanette (00:11:12) It takes a long time. It can take years to clear down this, and it takes a long time to bring your spleen energy back up. Naturally.

Abby (00:11:24) And dampness and weather. When we say qi, we’re talking about energy. And so dampness would be one of the pathogenic factors, I believe it’s referred to. And so there’s dampness, there’s dryness, there is heat, wind, cold, and then there’s a dry heat that the other one.

Jeanette (00:11:46) I can’t remember. There are five, right?

Abby (00:11:51) Yeah. Damp, cold heart. Wind. Dried Chinese, I think. Yeah, And so and so those are kind of like different descriptors to a way the body can be imbalanced. And I’ve heard it described as a kind of Chinese medicine is different in one of the ways it’s different than Western medicine is that it looks like the body as a garden, and it’s not so much about the individual part of the body, but looking at it holistically and how do we bring it back into balance, is that would that be how you would view it or would you change that description?

Jeanette (00:12:31) No, that’s a perfect description. Your body’s a garden or it’s an environment within itself and ecosystem and your organs all work together and organs have channels that run through your entire head to toe. And channels are attached to organs. So those specific channels will have specific energy flows up or down from the organs. And if one organ is out of whack, another organ will. Eventually, become weakened because of the energy cycle from within your organs each organ provides. Energy to another set of organs. And that’s the cycle. It’s the five-element cycle or the five-phase cycle within the organ. So if one fails, then the next one will eventually fail. And then because that one fails, a third will fail, and then the whole cycle. The other thing is.

Abby (00:13:42)

Abby: Every two considers to be working.

Jeanette (00:13:44) Yeah. When you’re deficient, for example, if you’re deficient there, that will create other issues in terms of excess, excess or if you’re deficient, you could hit burnout and become yang deficient. And there are all sorts of differences. I guess what they would call syndromes happening. So. Yeah.

Abby (00:14:14)

Abby: Yeah. And you mentioned the five elements working together. So each organ is paired with a different element and they all work together as a cycle and each one is essential. And that’s like also when one goes offline or just doesn’t work properly and all of the other ones feel it and eventually, the other ones start suffering as well. Yeah.

Jeanette (00:14:39) So yeah.

Abby (00:14:41) Do you find that there are common conditions that you see a lot of? There’s like patterns that you see with what’s going on, people that you work with.

Jeanette (00:14:51) Yeah. The most common, I think, and most likely because I work more with women than with men, although I have long, long-term male clients that I work with and see every week. But in terms of women, the one that I see quite often is spleen qi deficiency, yin deficiency, and yang or liver yang excess.

Jeanette (00:15:28) And that also impacts their monthly cycle tremendously. So if you don’t have the cheek to move and your liver is not moving, or if it’s flaring upwards, then it will throw your cycle off completely.

Abby (00:15:51) And that’s.

Jeanette (00:15:51) Why. I’m so.

Abby (00:15:52) Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. That’s why we were working on that together. So you were helping me with that? Because that was throwing my cycle off. Well, it’s been like this since my whole life, but I am actively working on it now because I had just been on birth control pills from the time I was like 14 to 32, which incidentally can contribute to Candida overgrowth, which I’ve been dealing with lately. So for me, I probably had that condition even when I was a kid, you know, or when I was younger. This is like spleen qi deficiency and immune deficiency. I remember being a little kid and being tired. I remember having passed out at one time, remember? Like having a sensitive stomach to food. So is this something that people could be born with or is it something they usually develop or a combination there?

Jeanette (00:16:45) There is. From what I’ve read, I worked with a fellow a couple of years ago who had stomach issues, and he was extremely spleen qi deficiency, and he had loose balls, diarrhea, and digested food. And he asked me the same question. And at that point, I didn’t know if it was hereditary that was passed down in like in Chinese, they call it Jing or the essence. But one day his little boy came in and I think at that point he was five years old and we were just joking. I was playing with him. I got him up on the table and I was tickling him. And then I said, Is there a butterfly? And at that point, I turned into his energy and I said, Is there a little butterfly that’s flipping around in your stomach? And he said, Yeah, it’s always there. I said, Hmm. And you sometimes have diarrhea and you feel really tired. And he’s like, Yeah. So at that point, I realized he had pretty much the same thing as his dad, but at a very much younger age and not as developed. So I guess in hindsight, I would say, yes, that things like that can be inherited.

Abby (00:18:18) Yeah. Wow. That’s a good insight into that. And you mentioned feeling into his energy. And so that’s something that you do because you do Chinese energetic medicine treatments one on one with people. So what is that like when you work with their energy? Like, what is that process like?

Jeanette (00:18:36) So. When I work with people hands-on, it’s much different because I’m very much more present and I’m very physical and I touch them and I’ll palpate into different points and I’ll push pulse energy through them. So it’s much more. Physical material type of treatment. I do go off into their outer energy fields and work in their outer energy fields because there’ll be different things happening. There may be inconsistencies that I need to bring through the body, but for the most part, with COVID, I do all of my treatments by distance.

Jeanette (00:19:24) So what happens there is I connect with the client on Zoom and I’ll be assessed and I’ll talk to them. And, then we go into the treatment. The client will lay down and I will bring their energetic form onto my table and I’ll work with their energetic form. I’m able to connect to them by stepping into their body so I can feel what Is happening. And at some points I can see or I can hear or I can feel pain or imbalances, I can see light and dark and colors. So that gives me an indication of what’s going on and where they need it. You know, purging or if they need modification or if they need energy blockages cleared or. For example, constrictions. Constrictions are interesting to feel when you’re working on someone at a distance because I get into their body and go through this.

Abby (00:20:45) Constriction.

Jeanette (00:20:46) Open.

Jeanette (00:20:49) Frictions typically are not easy. They never go away in one treatment because it’s almost like it has memory.

Abby (00:20:58)

Abby: So like the muscle memory but energetic memory.

Jeanette (00:21:02) Yeah. So it’s like habituated to this constricted energy flow. So time after time, I have to just kind of keep opening and it may take three or four or five sessions. It depends on where the constriction is. Also, depending on the client, if they are self-aware, I will ask them to help me during the session because if the client actually can do it with me, it’s much more effective. So it clears much more easily. Yeah. So yeah, it’s having the person that’s lying there go into, for example, if there’s a constriction down there, their little cavity by the heart space, I’ll just have them go down, sink into that space and just literally make room or if there’s something there, I’ll ask them to move it and quite often they’re able to do it. Yeah.

Abby (00:22:12) Yeah, I found that too. If they work with you, they can move you can move your energy so effectively with, with some guidance and. Yeah. And you’re working together then to two sets of energy instead of what.

Jeanette (00:22:28) Well it’s really important in treatments that the client take an active role during the treatment is good if, if there is something like that that comes up if they can help me clear it or help me open up a blockage or remove a thing that shouldn’t be there, then, it actually will happen much more quickly than if I work on it and try and remove something. It takes me probably 2 to 3 times longer to work through it. I was going to say something else, but it’s gone. It’s funny how it happens.

Abby (00:23:17) It’s like. It’s like a whisper that goes, oh.

Jeanette (00:23:20) It was a good one too.

Abby (00:23:21) Come to you. Feel free to. Interject when it comes back. So what drew you into this kind of work? What did you do towards doing this?

Jeanette (00:23:35) What actually kind of pulled me into this was I didn’t know I was going to go into this to start with, but my brother had passed away from cancer. And it was a hard time because he was in the hospital for months and he was on chemo and he was telling us that he was seeing. Things. And these things were telling him differently, giving him different messages, and he would have conversations and everybody else, everybody thought he was crazy or was the result of the chemotherapy. But I know what I know now, I think he was talking to his guides.

Abby (00:24:29) And what kinds of things was he seeing or describing?

Jeanette (00:24:34) He would be in his hospital room and he would seem like just a little. He didn’t describe what they look like, but small I wouldn’t even call them people, but small creatures or entities or something. And one of them told him that he wasn’t going to die right now, so not to worry. And he lived for five months and he has diagnosed with stage five metastatic cancer, which was in his nervous system and is in the fluid around his brain and everything. And eventually, it did go into his brain. But essentially the chemotherapy went through trying to get him more weeks so that he could get everything organized.

Jeanette (00:25:33) But he ended up having more months like we were. He was released from the hospital and was able to spend time at home with his family and everything. So. Yeah. So it was just messages like that. You’re not going to die immediately. Like, just take the time, take a breath and just get things organized. And it’s just some other things about being able to pass on and not to worry because death is not the end, that there is a constant, constant life afterward.

Abby (00:26:16) It sounds like he had this connection with something in a different, different world and this physical one we’re normally living in. Yeah. For you. At that time, did you feel that it was his guide at that time or what was that like for you to hear that?

Jeanette (00:26:32) Then for I wasn’t that I wasn’t anywhere as sensitive and I at that point, I didn’t know what a guide was like. It was all out there for me. I think the thing that made a huge impact on me was when. The day that he passed, my brother and I were sitting in the waiting room and we both knew we passed because we had his energy come through right almost at the yellow court region. Which area? Yeah, solar plexus is the energy that came through and I immediately knew it was him and he wanted to say thank you.

Jeanette (00:27:22) And the same time I had it, my brother who was sitting beside me had it, except that my brother gave him an extra, like one of those big hugs lifted from the back. So, that was kind of an eye-opener. And my first well, not my first, I think I’ve had brushes with. Things that I didn’t understand before that. But that was like the first real tangible thing where somebody besides me felt the same thing, so it was more real. So what got me into qigong or Chinese energetic medicine was a friend of mine was heading to Vancouver to take a medical qigong course, and she said, You want to go? And I went, I don’t even know what it is, but sure.

Abby (00:28:18) Why not?

Jeanette (00:28:19) I thought it was like tai chi.

Abby (00:28:22) Course or something. Little did you know.

Jeanette (00:28:29) So that’s. That’s how I am. That was my introduction.

Abby (00:28:34) Wow. I guess it was the right time in your life. It feels like the universe just kind of handed this one. Maybe your guides are just like, hey, this is next. Yeah. Sounded like you were open. Yeah. Which was all you needed at that time, I guess.

Jeanette (00:28:49) Yeah, I think everything happens for a reason, so. Yeah. And then. Yeah, since then I have taken an interest.

Abby (00:29:05) Yes. So, yeah Every time I talk to you, you’re like, oh, I’m doing this new Qigong said, I’ve been doing this meditation. Like, it’s like it’s inspiring. It’s just like, you know, someone has found what they’re meant to be doing when they just live and breathe it, you know? Like for Fun.

Jeanette (00:29:24) It’s called I’m one of these people who need to figure it out. And if I can’t figure it out, I learn more and more or take more and more courses.

Abby (00:29:34) Great way to grow. You’re so knowledgeable about it. And it’s yeah, it’s amazing.

Jeanette (00:29:42) The curiosity behind it all. And it’s, it’s amazing how much there is behind this.

Abby (00:29:50) Oh, it feels like it’s not.

Jeanette (00:29:53) Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not just t there’s so much behind the practice and the traditions behind it and it’s so powerful. Like, it’s just amazing. That’s all I can see. Amazing.

Abby (00:30:10) Yeah. And it’s one of those things that, like when I’m doing qigong, I mean, lately I’ve been doing these liver and spleen exercises that involve stretching my tendons so it doesn’t feel like soft, flowy tai chi kind of in the park sort of vibe is like me shaking and moaning and like, getting hot and flesh in the face. It’s not pretty, but I know it’s working. It’s working things out of my system. I feel great after, but a lot of it too. It is very gentle and it’s, you know, to think about how much of a return in well being you get for how gentle it can seem or like, Oh, you’re just standing there and meditating and moving breath in different directions, or you’re just like moving your hand down here and imagining and tending.

Abby (00:31:01) The energy goes this way. Like it can seem like. I just like magical or even made up, like, how am I doing stuff? But then you feel phenomenally different. So yeah, I mean I, there’s something to it and this is the work I do too. So I don’t, I’m no longer someone who doubts, but. For a while, I would just be like, Wow, I don’t have to, like go work out or do this invasive procedure I’ll have to do just gentle movement and breath and attention, practice, and what a difference it makes. Yeah.

Jeanette (00:31:32) Yeah,  And as you’re talking about how, how it looks like you’re not doing it, a good, good example is the question the return to spring said because you’re you can stand, you can sit or you can sit cross-legged and you hold your hands in one position. And if somebody was looking at you from the outside, it’s like, how is that healing you?

Abby (00:32:00) I just think you’re meditating. But a lot is going on. There’s inner alchemy happening.

Jeanette (00:32:05) Yeah, the energy movement is just phenomenal. That and the flow of that. You can feel it just by directing your hands in a tent position in front of your chest. And if you’re focused and your hands are in the right position, the flow is amazing. Yeah. And that’s all clearing out and sending energy down to your kidneys.

Abby (00:32:28) Yeah. And a lot of people need energy in their kidneys. I believe a lot of women I worked with, myself included. Just those are the battery banks of the body, is that right?

Jeanette (00:32:40) Yeah, they are, too. And in today’s world, the kidneys most people have are kidney deficient and likely both yin and yang deficient because of the world we live in.

Abby (00:32:55) The go, go, go. Get up and drink coffee. Push, push, push.

Jeanette (00:33:00) Yeah. And the way we relax is to go home and watch TV. But all that visual stimulus is it’s not putting G into you. It’s pulling out of you, and it’s getting your emotions and your senses going. So you’re not relaxing by watching television.

Abby (00:33:18) So what would be a simple way that you could support your kidneys and replenish them?

Jeanette (00:33:26) The best way. I think the most highly effective way is to do the kidney set from the return to spring. That’s my go-to when I’m tired and I feel and there are obvious signs when you’re deficient. It’s like you have an ache in the heel you can’t. Or it’s difficult to fall asleep. You start forgetting things. Some indications in the eyes also tell that your kidney is deficient.

Abby (00:34:00) What would your eyes look like if you’re kidney deficient?

Jeanette (00:34:03) You have a bit of shadowing under the eyes. Yeah. That’s what I would say is for me when I look at somebody the best indication of the deficiency.

Abby (00:34:18) Maybe I’ll.

Jeanette (00:34:19) Go ahead. The lower back or lower back is another one in the morning. That’s a really good identifier of deficiency. That’s something that happens a lot with women during their menstrual cycle like the lower back. And so would that be more taxing on the kidneys for women at that time of the month?

Jeanette (00:34:37) Yeah, it’s the yin deficiency. Yeah. And there’s it’s the kidneys, but it’s also the channels, the main channels that become very deficient. And once those are deficient, the entire body is just. Just kind of collapses into deficiency. And then in terms of women’s health and the liver, she doesn’t move properly to move the blood. And the whole cycle happens where you’ll have pain, cramping, excessive bleeding or. Sometimes it’ll go the other way and it’ll be you won’t have the period. So it just depends on what’s happening.

Abby (00:35:24) It’s usually there’s not enough energy and the energy is not moving as it should be. Yeah. When you say channels, is that the same thing as the Energy Meridian Pathways that acupuncturists work with?

Jeanette (00:35:38) Yes. Yeah, they’re the same. I’ll use the same points. Qigong is Chinese medicine, they’re based on the same system. They all came out of the. The same. Tradition. It’s been around for thousands of years. So.

Abby (00:36:06) Yeah. For some of the books that I know, we had our textbooks in class. They’re about like three inches thick and there are five of them. And this is just like a little peek into the thousands of years old wisdom and research and practice and study. And in this modality.

Abby (00:36:23) It’s pretty amazing. Yeah. And I. I used to get acupuncture done, and I would go and it would hurt because, you know, opening up the channels and forcing it, the needle itself didn’t hurt too much. But I come home when I’d flop on my couch and I would drool because I was so tired from the g like being forced to move. But you’re, you’re doing you’re helping the cheetah move without the use of actual physical needles. And it’s it can to me, it felt like a gentler process, but also effective. It’s nice. I can be at home and I don’t drool after, but it’s just like it’s just. I mean, each process has its place, but, interestingly, we can do this work without needles as well.

Jeanette (00:37:10) Yeah, It’s the same. I mean, acupressure. It can be done without needles. Directing and emitting energy is the same as needles. And you can do a surface-emission or you can go deep. You can direct downwards or upwards, purge everything. I mean, it’s the same, similar, and I think it’s quite often a deeper treatment after qigong treatment. It depends on the type of treatment. It can wipe you out for several hours, especially purging. If you’re purging, you’re going through a detox.

Jeanette (00:38:03) So you will have various reactions. I’m just a woman I’ve been working with since December. I guess the first few sessions I worked with her, she would go through twitching her legs, her feet, and her entire body would twitch on the table. And the first time I worked on her all night, her body just twitched all night long. It just kept moving. And this is the energy opening up and moving through her body. So. You. You have to be ready if you’re going to have a treatment to do nothing for the rest of the day.

Jeanette (00:38:52)  Because if there’s some strong purging or opening of the channels or energy going where there virtually was no flow before. There will be various actions in your life and they will be very physical. Some people have incredibly vivid dreams during the treatment or after the treatment.

Abby (00:39:21) So what’s happening at the energetic level is also affecting their emotions, their mind. It’s all energy that’s interconnected.

Jeanette (00:39:29) Yeah, They’re psyche and their spiritual aspects. So. Yeah.

Abby (00:39:35) Yeah. And it’s so interesting that the things that we think and feel are also so interconnected to what’s going on in our body and our energy and our organ systems. Like, I’ve, I’ve seen people who’ve gotten surgery and they have really difficult emotional experience after because the Meridian Pathways have been cut and the surgery, the liver is overrun with processing things and it processes the emotions as well as filters and cleans the blood of toxins. So all of a sudden when the liver is burdened, then all emotions become overwhelming.

Abby (00:40:12) And it’s funny. It’s like we support the organ systems and it also addresses things like overwhelm and helps with things like anxiety, and depression, when we release these blockages. Yeah,  Something that I noticed, too, when I’ve been doing my check on exercises, it’s been giving me more energy physically, but I also feel just so, so light emotionally. Like I’ll go outside for a walk and I just look at everything. My husband laughs at me. Dave laughs at me. Like, every time we go out, you say it’s a beautiful day. No matter what kind of day it is. Like it is. It’s a beautiful day. Look at those trees. Just, like, feel happy.

Jeanette (00:40:55)  That’s good. It’s. Well, yeah, it’s because you’re. You’re because your body is functioning, right. And you don’t have that turbidity and toxicity in you. Yes. So you’re lighter. Everything’s lighter, everything’s brighter. Yeah. And like when I work on people, when I step into them, I can see the darkness or the gray, and like, I literally can see on one side, it’s quite common for me to step in. I can just see the darkness on this side. And it’s just because they’ve got some sort of constriction down on the ankle and the t isn’t flowing out. So it’s just building out. Building, building out. And it’s just as a matter of just basically opening up the feet and going and just directing it and then it clears itself.

Jeanette (00:41:51) It’s but that’s how you see it going outside, right? Because you don’t have that turbidity that you’re having to look through.

Abby (00:41:58) Yeah. It’s just like the filter that grays out. The world is not there and it’s so much easier to see the beauty of the world. Yeah, we briefly chatted about this before we started recording about just things popping into people’s energy fields. I was like, Oh, that wasn’t there last week. Where did this thing come from? Let’s clear it out. It’s like I think of it as energetic hygiene. Like we take a shower every day to clean our body, but then there’s our energy field. And wouldn’t it be great if we had this, like, normalized in our society where we learn how to like, feel the energy in our body and release things that are blocking it?

Jeanette (00:42:35) Yeah. And you can do, I mean it’s if you with a little bit of practice, you can do this yourself. It’s like you can set the energy by controlling your weight field. You can change the space around you by pulling in different energies. The higher frequency energies in your outer field will change the space because the energy in your outer fields is connected to the liver and the heart, which are the more spiritual energies connected to Shin. There is a higher frequency either. Different colors, but they also come with a set of emotions that are yang. Let me see how I can explain this positively.

Jeanette (00:43:37) Our emotions, like in terms of electrical charge, you have negative positives. So negative is very physical or low vibration type energy, which are the slower emotions like grief or fear or worries, OCD type rage, anger. And then you have the higher set of emotions which are from the liver, for example, compassion, kindness, or from the heart, which is peace, order. So if you are to tap into those emotions and those organs and bring them and just all you have to do is think about them. And they will come out and they will fill just basically your outer field will start activating. And the universal chi or the chi that is up there, the cosmic g will automatically come and it will move out from your way field and fill the space.

Jeanette (00:44:49) And it will move towards. The negative because it’s electrical and it will change space. So the people with other people in that space. It will transition and change the way their emotions are coming. It will give you. You will change because you’ve automatically used intention to change the emotion. So your whole state of being will change almost just like that, just by tapping into those high-frequency emotions. Or actually, I shouldn’t call them emotions. Virtues, I should call them.

Abby (00:45:35) Yeah. Passion, kindness. And is. Is it as simple as just thinking of compassion and kindness and just letting yourself feel that for no reason at all, and let that kind of radiate out from you feeling your energy?

Jeanette (00:45:48) Compassion. Yeah, exactly. Compassion is probably the easiest. It’s like flipping a switch. You can have compassion for something in any situation. If there’s someone who’s crying, you can have compassion for if there’s someone who’s just in this total worry, some friend you can have compassion for. So it’s almost like you flip the switch and you can just touch your liver and you can just go into compassion if you. And it doesn’t matter where you are, you should. It’s so easy to tap into that compassion, the heart.

Jeanette (00:46:38) It would be much more difficult because of their more difficult virtues of peace and harmony. It’s really difficult to tap into your heart amid chaos. So I always kind of go-to suggest that people go to the river and if they can’t do that, then think about guanine. That will change immediately as well. Just bring that energy down. Just all you have to do is think about the goddess of mercy, and that will change the energy around you as well. I mean.

Abby (00:47:19) Nine years ago when we were in training and our teacher had all of these different deities and gods and goddesses, those pictures up on the wall. And we were walking by and it was like, Oh, I walked my companion’s image and she spoke to me, the only one that day and very loud and clear, like, oh, wow, you’re here. Okay.

Abby (00:47:38) Very compassionate, loving, being. Yeah. And when you. And just so wait. She says that someone’s energy feels like an energetic feeling that radiates out from them and that extends beyond the physical body. Yeah.  And that’s the place that we want to have filled with Archie, our energy. And as we do that, then we don’t get other stray stuff collecting in our field.

Jeanette (00:48:04 ) Yeah, it’s, it’s some for the most part. It is your outer fields through the protective fields within you, within your body. They are part of you, they are you, they’re your energy. And the further out you go, the purer the energy and those are. And you want to keep them strong no matter where you are. You need to have your way to feel there because they are your boundaries. If your fields are kind of collapsing inwards, you’ll feel threatened, you’ll feel very vulnerable. But all you need to do is think of positive virtue. And it will just activate and you’ll have your own if you need boundaries or if you need your own space, for example, it will be there as soon as you activate.

Abby (00:49:07) It makes me think of a kind of meditation, metta meditation or called loving-kindness meditation. People just meditate, feeling, loving-kindness, just feeling it for somebody, someone something themself just radiating, loving-kindness. And they just imagine what their inner energy fields are like. People who practice that every day. What a beautiful way to bring beautiful energy into the world. But it’s also very, very protective because it would keep your energy very cleansed like their energetic hygiene is on point with that.

Jeanette (00:49:46) Yeah. But it’s also. It’s also a way of transforming other energies.

Jeanette (00:49:54) Yeah. Because so. Yeah, it’s just what it touches when you feel a good example is when you walk into a room and there’s someone there’s always somebody warm, you know? You know that they’re this warm, open, loving person. You don’t even have to see them. All you have to do is sense. And as soon as you sense them, you change. Yes. And it’s yeah, it’s that frequency. It just, you know, and if you can kind of activate your own and bring down the energy, it will eventually go out and transform. It’s like using this to set the intention to change the space.

Abby (00:50:44) Yeah, it’s beautiful.

Jeanette (00:50:45) That’s. Yeah

Abby (00:50:47) And it’s like a practice. It starts just feeling the compassion and seeing it grow and letting it grow from there. And I remember when we used to go to these other yoga classes, our favorite teacher, she was just like that. She was just so loving and warm and kind. And in class she would say, every class, like the beginning of class, you welcome people, get people into the energy. And she would say, I think it was the beginning or end. I love you to everybody in class like collectively, but you could feel the energy of it was like she meant it and it was so touching to have this one, this person you don’t know, but just this unconditional love radiating out from them. And it was just such a beautiful, transformative energy and experience to be in, just washing in this person’s love. It’s just amazing.

Jeanette (00:51:37) Yeah. It’s just, you know, it’s. It’s that frequency from that. That virtue or emotion that it’s just it’s universal. It’s just all surrounding everything. Everything is full. Even the furniture, the, you know, my laptop, my books, they’re all radiating. And we’re moving to that frequency. It’s beautiful. It’s that vibration of the frequency.

Abby (00:52:14) It’s a beautiful frequency to fill yourself with and to fill your space or your home with too. Yeah,

Jeanette (00:52:21)  And it’s when you have compassion, you have compassion for the world.

Abby (00:52:29) Well, on that note, we’ll begin wrapping it up, but it has been beautiful. Is there anything else that you want to share, any messages you’d want for people to know about, you know, healing or well-being or energy or whatever you like?

Jeanette (00:52:47)  I’m just trying to think. I think for the most part. To understand qigong and what she is you have to have to look inwards. And you also, to feel her, you have to feel she or you have to have cheated. So if you’ve never worked with qigong before, don’t be afraid. If you can’t feel it, it just means that you don’t have enough qi in your body built up so that you can recognize what it is. So maybe go and take some cheek or some tai chi or qigong or some sort of form that actually. And actually, it could be yoga. Yoga builds cheap as well. Or meditation will build. Just take some beginner courses and start building the QI in your body. And that will enable you to feel. Chee, which is you’re feeling a vibration, a frequency of energy.

Abby (00:54:05) And thank you. It’s like an awakening of the energetic field of awakening to learn how to feel this dimension.

Jeanette (00:54:15) Yeah.  It’s. It’s an amazing, amazing thing. Just by running one hand over the other, I can feel it’s just an incredible feeling of feeling the tree.

Abby (00:54:28) It’s beautiful. And so people can find you. So they can find you. In the mentorship. Coming up in May, you’re working with our current mentor group, which is wonderful because we do such powerful shifting and spiritual and shamanic and transformative work and it takes a lot of qi to do that. And so I’m just so happy that you are there helping the group to help to support the group, to help them lift their energy out so they become stronger. And everything that we move through becomes lighter and easier by extension in their lives too. So really happy to have you here. I feel like it’s such an integral part of healing and transformation and energy work and spiritual work and emotional work is just having this strong foundation. And I feel like the Qigong is just so good at creating that.

Jeanette (00:55:27)  Yeah. It’s so nice to be able to teach people how to connect because the connection is quite easy. It’s just for the first time to connect up there and be. Being there is quite eye-opening.

Abby (00:55:43) Yes. It’s amazing.

Jeanette (00:55:44)  It’s an amazing feeling. Yeah, I love doing what I do.

Abby (00:55:52) It’s you know, I can tell. It shows. And on that note, too, if people want to book a one-on-one session with you, they can find more information about you at, which is J, e, a, n, e, t, t, and e. Well, thank you for being here, my dear. It’s been a pleasure.

Jeanette (00:56:18) Yeah, well, thanks for inviting me. It was fun. Always fun. Take care.


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19-Come Home to Yourself

Come home to yourself abby light
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Come Home To Yourself

In episode 19 – Come Home to Yourself, we unpack the symptoms and reasons for feeling disconnected from your true self, and what you can do to reconnect with who you really are. This episode is for anyone who struggles with feeling stuck, alone, anxious or depressed. Or for anyone who feels disconnected from their emotions, body or life.

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello. Welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I’m so excited to have you here. I am a healer, a coach, and a mentor. I help people to heal their minds, their body, their spirits, remember their magic, their purpose, and share their gifts with the world. And today, I want to talk to you about the symptoms that so many of us are experiencing around the world, and have been experiencing for many generations, for many centuries, this concept of connection and disconnection.

Abby (00:00:45) And I feel when we get down to the root of things, the biggest core piece that I’ve found is a sense of disconnection that creates suffering, and that is a disconnection with our true selves, with who we are authentic, with our spirit, with our heart and soul, disconnection with our body, with the messages our body is giving us. When it’s telling us, Hey, I need you to slow down. I need you to let go of these thoughts. I need you to eat or drink differently, to live differently. Messages from Mother Nature.

Abby (00:01:22) The way we live on the planet. We don’t feel that connection with Mother Earth. We don’t realize that when we damage the Earth, we’re damaging ourselves, both spiritually and practically. The Earth is our mother. It is literally what makes up the elements of our bodies, and it is the one that sustains life, that keeps us alive, that nourishes us. And as we harm the Earth, if we put toxins in the Earth, those toxins end up right back to us. And spiritually, the earth is a part of who we are too. We are an extension and evolution of nature, and to harm the mother is to harm the self and each other.

Abby (00:02:06) If we feel disconnected from each other, if we feel isolated, if we feel alone, it is like the leaf that falls off of the tree. We don’t have the nourishment of the larger community, the larger organism that is the collective, and that connection with each other. It can lift us, it can inspire us. It is where we go to co-create and collaborate and feel loved and held and share our love. So connection and disconnection, it’s such a core piece of how we feel in life, how we experience life and ourselves.

Abby (00:02:49) And with that, there is the ego. So the egoic mind is a part of creating disconnection, as was part of creating separation, and that has a place that has its value in the physical world on the Earth plane, we need some degree of separation between self and other so that I know I am me and you are you when you are in pain doesn’t mean that I am in pain. And that’s good because it means I can take care of you and it’s a balance. So if there’s too much sense of separation, I can forget that I am also connected to you.

Abby (00:03:30) I am one leaf on the tree, but I’m also, by extension, the whole tree and connected to you as another leaf on that tree. So it’s finding the balance and it’s remembering that within all of these different perspectives and senses of separation, there’s also the greater wholeness of each of us, of life, of the universe. Alan Watts said You are a focal point in which the whole universe looks out. You can imagine that within each of you, as Rumi said, the universe dwells inside you. Within each of us, there is an infinite and infinite expanse of consciousness of possibility, because we are connected to all that is, and all that is is connected to us.

Abby (00:04:28) And the way that we lookout is a focal point of all of that. And our consciousness is a beautiful celebration of life because if we don’t have a sense of separation, it’s harder to experience individuality, to experience new things if you’re simply infinity forever. So we come into this world of duality, of light and dark, and all of the shades in between. And that gives us the breadth and depth of. Periods of life where we can have new experiences as individual consciousness, and in those experiences grow and evolve our consciousness.

Abby (00:05:11) Until many believe, I sense that we are eventually ready to return to a greater, infinite sense of oneness. We go through these cycles, the birth of the soul, this individual experience of learning, and then coming back home to oneness. And with that, there’s also the individual sense of separation from self. So if you think about each of us as a soul, as a spirit, we have our unique essence, our unique consciousness, the signature. That is who we are, our energy.

Abby (00:05:53) And we are that observing consciousness, the witness having this experience of life, making decisions, experiencing the results of those decisions as we go throughout our lifetimes and as we go throughout these lifetimes, as we go through simply one lifetime growing up as a baby and into adulthood, we are biologically programmed within instinct to fit in with the tribe so that we can stay alive because we not as much today.

Abby (00:06:30) Well, yeah, actually, we are still very much in many ways dependent on each other and civilization on society for keeping us alive in this big, wild world of earth where we support each other we’re meant to have different rules that we then share and complement with each other. And this societal structure, this part of us that is social, wants to fit in with the tribe. We are biologically programmed to fit in. When we come into this world, we see as babies, can I have a place where I belong? Because that is how I will survive.

Abby (00:07:08) Especially when we’re young. We’re helpless. Can I be loved? Can I belong? Is what we’re looking for. And so we can mold ourselves. We learn to mold ourselves into the ways that we think other people want us to be. And we do that as a form of survival so that we can stay amongst the tribe and be accepted. And so that can mean smiling when we don’t feel happy or saying we will want to do something or will do something when it doesn’t feel right in our bodies.

Abby (00:07:44) And that can evolve more and more into growing up and taking a job that we feel we should take, even though we don’t want it, or following a life path that doesn’t excite or inspire us at all, maybe even makes us feel less and less alive because we think that’s the path we’re quote-unquote, supposed to take. We take it. So it’s like a habit that develops from a very young, initially out of a need for survival. And then it just becomes this habit of doing what others want us to do instead of listening to what we want to do. And as babies and young children, we come into the world with very good boundaries usually.

Abby (00:08:25) So children are not typically shy about telling you how they feel, what they do want, what they don’t want, what they’re comfortable with, what they aren’t comfortable with. They can vocalize that quite loudly. But as we get older, we learn to calm that part of ourselves. We learn to appease others, and that’s not all bad. We do have a degree of compliance that all live and work together as a toddler. We don’t want to let them take the crayon and draw all over your friends or our friend’s wall or our wall, typically. So it’s a balance, right? But we learn as kids, we get this habit of doing what others want us to do, even when we don’t want to.

Abby (00:09:11) And over enough time, we can even forget what it is that we even wanted in the first place. And that part of us, that inner voice that says that points you in the direction of what feels good for you. It gets muffled out and it gets quiet down behind layers and layers of social conditioning to belong within the tribe. And that’s where we can fall into patterns of depression and anxiety. This feeling of dullness or emptiness in life, because we’re going through these motions and these motions that aren’t exciting or even really feel like us. So for me, I remember going through a period of my life where I felt like I was just living in this dream-like I was living somebody else’s life.

Abby (00:10:06) And I felt alienated from my own life and myself. And later on, I went down a healing journey through plant medicines and shamanic training, and much more. But it was a symptom of not being connected with and aligned with my authentic self. I’m not even knowing where or what that part of me was. I had been going through the motions for so long of doing what my egoic mind thought I wanted, what I identified with as successful and good. And this will make me happy.

Abby (00:10:45) And just trying to push through to make that work, even though it wasn’t what my heart really, truly wanted. And some of us can go through our whole life this way of not knowing the deeper part of ourselves inside and others. You know, we’ll get glimpses of that, those moments that feel so alive and free, where we’re touching our soul and even maybe expressing a part of ourselves. And that’s such a beautiful experience to taste that and to dip your toe into that. And for those of you who felt that you know what I’m talking about, those moments that are just so vivid, so present, so beautiful in that way.

Abby (00:11:32) And if you haven’t felt that, hey, that is okay, it is still available to you, that part of you is still inside. And a lot of people right now are feeling a calling, the sense of, I need to find something. I don’t know what that is, but I need to find it. And I felt that calling years ago when I was on my beginning, my path of healing and awakening. And I think those two things kind of go together like two sides of the same coin or two parts of an interdimensional door to your soul and the universe. But that calling is the biggest place that comes from is your soul.

Abby (00:12:17) It’s that part of you that is saying, Hey, find me. You need to find me. I’m here. I’m here. I’m waiting for you to come to find me so that we can dance in this magic of life. So that we can share these gifts. Unlock these gifts that are inside of you. This purpose that you have here in this pivotal time on earth is calling for us to awaken to who we truly are and to share our gifts with the world, those gifts that are so needed. I feel in a sense that calling is a part of this awakening, this birthing of consciousness, of a new era on earth, perhaps. And answering that calling can feel overwhelming.

Abby (00:13:07) It can feel like, where do I even begin? I know I need to do something, but what? What do I need to do? Where do I need to find this? There’s this overwhelming urge, but the details are not laid out. I don’t know where to begin looking, and that’s how I felt anyway. And if you’re there, then I feel you. I’ve been there. For me, it was overwhelming. It was all-consuming in many ways. And I just knew I needed to find this thing that seemed just beyond my reach, just beyond my grasp. Or I could almost pierce through the veil and grab it. But I just couldn’t quite bring it into clarity, into conscious awareness yet.

Abby (00:13:50) And so I spent seven years learning how to do that, learning a path back to myself through traveling different parts of the world, working with shamans, studying yoga philosophy and practices, learning shamanic healing, how to work with the mind and release unhealthy patterns and beliefs, and working with plant medicines that are expansive and consciousness and deeply healing for me anyway. And working with energy and learning qigong and Chinese shamanism and learning how to integrate all of these things, which are both tools for healing and awakening. So two sides of the interdimensional door as we heal the painful things. Which are things like past traumas.

Abby (00:14:47) Emotions get stuck in the body and cause the energy to stop flowing in the body. Which leads to pain, fatigue, illness, beliefs that are not in alignment with our true nature, with our true essence as we learn to release these things. And with that also external energies. So things like entities that can kind of run amok, kind of look at them as opportunistic energies that can kind of create chaos in people’s lives until you learn how to deal with them. So as we release things like this, we are healing. And as we release things like this, we are pulling off the layers between your awareness and your true self.

Abby (00:15:32) So you can imagine every untrue belief, like not feeling worthy, not feeling good enough or strong enough or good or lovable, or like you belong. Those are all different layers, different veils, covering up your true self. And as you pull off each layer, it’s healing. It is like pulling a thorn out of your side. That was creating anxiety, overwhelm, depression, and pain. As you pull that out, you naturally begin healing your body, your spirit, your mind. And as you do that, it is easier and easier to connect with that part of you that is infinite. That is why that is magical. That has all the answers to who you are and what you’re meant to be doing here in this lifetime.

Abby (00:16:22) So they happen at the same time, layer by layer, piece by piece, releasing that, which is untrue. And as we do that, this is the first step that I do with my mentor students and my mentorship program, which is beginning to heal what creates the most suffering, healing it from the nervous system, from the body, from the spirit, from the mind. And as we do that, we’re creating space inside of ourselves to feel at home in the body, to feel at ease and calm. That’s number one. So if we’re carrying around, I like to joke that it’s like a big boulder.

Abby (00:16:59) So if we’re carrying around grief and depression, I have this big boulder in my arms and whatever I do, I’m going to bring that with me. So let me go figure out my life purpose. I might just bring this boulder with me as I go. And it’s like, Oh, no, we can’t do that. It’s too exhausting and taxing and distracting to be carrying around all that pain. So the first thing we do is learn how to put the boulder down. And as you do that, there’s so much more space and freedom and energy inside of you. And from there we can connect with who you truly are.

Abby (00:17:34) And that is a process of remembering, of coming home to your heart and letting your heart guide you to give you messages and insight and wisdom. And the heart is a portal to the soul. And in this portal, you learn how to connect with your divine essence inside of you. And you learn how to let that guide you. And you learn how to connect with other parts of you to navigate this life on earth from your most wise, magical, infinite self. So we learn how to listen to the heart, how to speak with your future self who is already doing all of the things that you’re meant to be doing.

Abby (00:18:17) So you don’t have to figure out, How do I do it? What is my purpose? What does that look like? That’s not something that your conscious mind will have easy access to. So that can be stressful trying to figure that all out so we don’t do that. Instead, we go inward, we connect with your inner wisdom and we move forward in time and get a glimpse of what your future self is already doing. And we ask that part of you how you got there, what you’re doing, who you’re doing it with, all of those kinds of questions. And we bring that wisdom, that insight, that guidance back into your life today.

Abby (00:18:55) And from there, having tasted this future life that is available to you and getting clarity on how to get there, now you have this clear path before you where you know where you’re going and you know how you’re doing it. And then it’s just taking step by step, one foot in front of the other, moving towards this place that is clear and beautiful in front of you. And it is so much more fun to manifest from this place of insight and wisdom and magic and all of the things that we do can move us in that direction. And what an incredible thing to have your mind be a servant to your heart, to support you in creating the life you want to live, but already getting to see and touch and feel what that life is.

Abby (00:19:47) So you know, you’re moving in the right direction. This all comes from connecting with who you truly are, with letting go of the beliefs of who we think we should be, of who others want us to be, of what is acceptable to be letting go of all of that so that you can remember and discover who you truly are and what you are here to do in this world and this lifetime. And it’s a beautiful thing to awaken to. And as you awaken to that. Your life begins to change in ways that you couldn’t predict. Things start aligning as you realize what you want and who you are.

Abby (00:20:37) The world starts bringing that in front of your vision, in front of you and offering to you more and more of that so you can begin creating more and more of that in your life. And things shift in synchronistic, beautiful, magical, unpredictable ways. And it’s part of just being on your path. Part of being connected with who you truly are. I don’t want to say they get easier because there will always be challenges in life. But when you have the tools to release the triggers that come up for each of us, that’s just part of being alive on earth. We’ve all been through experiences this lifetime and other lifetimes, releasing the triggers.

Abby (00:21:24) You learn how to do that to create space and freedom inside of you. You learn how to heal your body through things like breath and movement and awareness and intention. Very gentle things that are surprisingly, very, very powerful for healing. As you learn how to listen to your inner wisdom, to access your inner magic and the gifts that are wanting to come through you and be expressed in the world. As you do that, it becomes a different way of experiencing life where, yes, there are challenges, but you get stronger and you have this inner guidance system to help you navigate them. And with that, it’s also not about doing it all alone.

Abby (00:22:13) If I mentioned we’re here to support each other and find your tribe and your community, your people who will support you. For who you are, who will welcome you, you know, where you’re not too much, where what you were. The magic is wanted, where the healing gifts are wanted for those who are ready to receive it, who are ready to talk about it and grow together. That’s a big part of it, too, is having that sense of community where you can come and practice being who you truly are and be celebrated for that and grow together with others who are like you in their way.

Abby (00:22:59) So for me, that was the culmination of seven years of experimenting and trying and failing and trying again and traveling and learning from all of these different, incredible, beautiful beings in different parts of the world, offering gifts in different ways. And with that, I decided my purpose here is to help others awaken to their magic, heal inside of them, and to share their gifts with the world. And so I created a roadmap where over six months we connect through a supportive, accepting, beautiful community of people where you are welcome exactly as you are. And we learn tools, the tools that I found to be the most powerful, direct, clear ways of finding freedom, of connecting with who you are, and sharing your gifts with the world.

Abby (00:23:59) So we learn these tools, this road map back home to yourself, to feeling at home inside of you, where you belong, to remembering who you are and what you came here to do, and to share that with the world. And that’s what I teach in my mentorship program, this six-month journey of coming home to yourself ultimately. If you are feeling that calling in your path at this time, know that you are not alone, that you do have incredible gifts to share. We all do it in our way. They are there inside of you. Everyone comes into the world with their own original medicine, with the gifts that they’ve come here to share.

Abby (00:24:46) And because you have them, you are worthy and you are good enough to share them and to access this part inside of you. And it’s just a matter of the will and some support and guidance to do that, to find your way home and to express who that being is and the way that feels most freeing and joyful to you. So if that’s something that calls to you, my next mentorship is starting in May, and it’s going to be a beautiful class. Each class just feels so magical and each group is so different and beautiful in its way. So it was taught by myself and one of my previous classmates when we were studying shamanic Chinese medicine. Her name is Jeanette Lee, and she teaches Qigong, a Chinese energetic medicine within the mentorship as well.

Abby (00:25:47) So she’s teaching people how to work with their energy field, how to awaken their energy field, how to heal their body through the use of energy work. It’s really beautiful to have her supporting people in the group as well. So if this is something that calls to you, even if you’re not sure, but a part of you feels like this could be a path for me, then I encourage you to reach out to schedule a free discovery, call with myself, and from there you can feel into what this is all about and check inside to see if this is right for you. So sending you, my love. If you have any questions, you can reach me at

Abby (00:26:37) You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at your mind, body free and wherever you are in your path, in your journey, I’m sending you so much love and I know that you can create you can do whatever it is you’re meant to be doing in this life. All right. Take care. Talk soon.


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Body Awakening

Abby Body awakening
Abby Body Awakening

Body Awakening:
My Journey of Physical Healing

In episode 18, Body Awakening, I share my journey of having developed digestive issues 7 years ago that had been getting progressively worse, to the point of barely being able to stay upright. Here I share my process of healing and what it’s taken to regain energy in my body.

Connect with Abigail:
Instagram @yourmindbodyfree
Facebook @yourmindbodyfree
Mentorship Program

Mentioned in this episode:

Candida Healing
Dave Moss Coach
Chinese Energetic Medicine with Jeanette Lee


Mind Body Free Podcast Love

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Looking for more support?
Schedule a free discovery call here
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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss. I am a healer. I’m a mentor and guide. I help people to heal their body, mind, and spirit, connect with their passion and purpose, and share their gifts in this world. And today I am back and back after a little break. So thanks. How’s it going? Nice to see you again. Or nice for you to hear me again. I don’t know.

Abby (00:00:30) Anyway, nice to connect. And I just wanted to share a little bit about where I’ve been lately and my journey and what I’ve been doing to help myself heal. So it’s been busy. I’m running a mentorship and an integrative healing coach training right now, which is a lot of fun, really great groups, and amazing people. And with that, I’ve also been doing a lot of work to heal my body. So I’ve been on this journey of emotional healing for quite some time, and that kind of led me into Peru and Ayahuasca and shamanic Chinese medicine.

Abby (00:01:16) Yeah. So desire and the desire to hear led me to Peru and ayahuasca. And then the desire, the burning desire to find my purpose, to answer this calling this feeling that I need to find something more and what I meant to be doing. So that led me down. Shamanic Chinese medicine, Vipassana meditation, linguistic programming, hypnotherapy, a bunch of other tools for healing and letting go of the blocks, the beliefs, and the patterns between my spirit and reality. I guess I could say it that way. Lifting the veil that’s been installed by my mind and the beliefs within the mind and all of the energies attached to that. So that was the initial journey.

Abby (00:02:08) And then a few years ago, the second time I went down to Peru, I was there for two months and I did end up getting a lot of stomach bugs, you know, food poisoning symptoms. I accidentally one time forgot to rinse my toothbrush, not in the tap water, in the purified water instead. So the one time I didn’t do that, I ended up getting quite sick the next day and coincidentally were also in a very long and powerful witch Uma ceremony. And I had been chosen, along with some of the other facilitators, to be in the ceremony and hold space. And I took that job very seriously and I just sat and meditated and witnessed all of them, the wild streams of consciousness from the group floating around.

Abby (00:03:09) And I just acted as a witness, as light like a candle in the darkness, releasing all the stuff that was coming up, hoping to hold space for the shaman, doing her work. And I think with that there is also some spiritual and energetic stuff I may not have fully navigated as well as I could have. Or, you know, I guess I did navigate to the best of my ability at that time. But knowing what I know now and thinking back, that may have been a factor as well. So anyway, I ended up getting sick and I came home from Peru. My digestion, my gut was off. I was also going through a lot of emotional challenges at that time. I was trying to decide which direction I should go in my life, and it was challenging for myself, for my partner.

Abby (00:04:04) And so there’s a lot of emotional distress, which is also very tied to gut distress. And so there is that. And then I went to India, I think a couple of months later, and I got food poisoning there and got sick again. And the gut distress was even worse. And I was just kind of. My diet consisted mostly of carbs in both Peru and India, kind of plant-based, lots of oats in India, lots of fruit. And so leading lots of sugar, so under a lot of emotional distress and had probably also picked up at least one bug and at least one of those countries. So it was all kind of this breeding ground for, you know, pathogens and co-infections within my digestive system and my gut.

Abby (00:04:58) And I came home and just noticed some different things like, oh, I can’t drink alcohol. And maybe that’s just because I’m more spiritual. Now, sugar seemed to bother me more and I would get more tired. And at first, it was like, okay, I can cope with this. I didn’t think too much of it. But as time went on, as the years went on, it seemed to get worse and worse. And I got to a point a little over a year ago where I just decided I can’t. I need to do something about this because I was so tired. And there’s lots of brain fog and just all kinds of problems with digestion. And I wasn’t able to properly function and had very little motivation in my business. It’s very hard to be motivated when your body’s not working properly.

Abby (00:05:51) And so I decided I needed to do something about it. So I learned about Candida overgrowth, what that is. And I looked into the symptoms of it and I just read like I found some great resources online at I can drop on the show notes and there is a lot of education there and a lot of videos. People who had been through this experience kind of shared the science of what’s going on and the stages based on your symptoms. And I just really resonated as true in my body of this is something that I’m going through.

Abby (00:06:28) And I felt so hopeful to have finally found somebody who could give me some answers because I had gone to my Western doctor and all of these uncomfortable tests, and they didn’t find anything wrong with me. But I knew there was something wrong with me. And having found this, I felt, okay, I’m not alone. Other people have been through this, are going through this, but there are a lot of people who have gotten better. And this is an actual serious issue. Some people to some people it can be fatal if not treated properly.

Abby (00:07:04) It was validating the experience I was having in my body and it was helpful to have a plan and how to move forward. And it is challenging or it was challenging for those, especially those first few weeks going on something called a candidate diet, which you starve Candida, which is a yeast that naturally occurs in the body, but under the stress and with too many with the stress, with too many toxins, antibiotics, medications, it can mutate into a fungal form and spread throughout the body, creating something called leaky gut and moving through the tight junctions in the lining of the gut and into the bloodstream.

Abby (00:07:56) And then from there it can migrate to other organs and affect them and could even cause organ failure, which if not treated properly. So part of what is involved in healing that is going on is the Candida diet, and that’s a really important step and that’s a diet that essentially starves the Candida of sugar because that’s what it eats. And so it’s a lot like. The Keto diet minus the dairy, because that also feeds Candida. And minus any processed foods or processes are kind of fake sugars. Because with Candida also comes something called leaky gut, where the digestive system becomes very sensitive because food is passing through the gut lining and into the bloodstream and going to places where it doesn’t belong and creating an inflammatory response.

Abby (00:08:51) So the body develops a lot of food allergies and sensitivities. So you have to move into a Whole Foods diet that is kind of really gentle on the gut for some time as that’s healing. So anyway, as you go into this, I went into this diet and like a lot of people experience, there’s this die-off symptom of the Candida dying as well as the Candida starving. So when Candida was starving, it felt like you were starving and you were furious. And because you just want something carbs and it’s a very emotional experience you can get. So I was getting waves of rage, anxiety, or depression, and these are all very common die-off symptoms.

Abby (00:09:37) But if you didn’t know what was going on, it could be very distressing in a way it is already distressing, but it’s comforting to know that this is a natural and temporary part of the process. So I went through that and I started integrating supplements, antifungals, things that would help to kill off the Candida and at the pace as gradual enough that my body could cleanse it out, my liver could cleanse the toxins from that process out of my system. So it is a very big learning process and in many ways continues to be. And yeah, it was very tiring, like more tiring times.

Abby (00:10:21) The body needs a lot of energy to heal. And I felt worse before I felt better. So as I was going through this experience, I was getting rashes on my skin, I was getting ways where I felt dizzy and had to lie down. I spent as many days as I spent just on the couch lying down, able to do little more than that. And those days gradually started becoming less and less able to walk a little bit. I was able to do a little bit more. I was able to work on my laptop from the couch lying down. I was able to do a little more, and a little more and build my business and work with clients.

Abby (00:11:01) And that to me is so fulfilling and so rewarding and purposeful. So getting to do that, even though my health wasn’t the greatest, it was a light in my life and it continues to be a light in my life doing this work. I love it. And with that I did notice eventually I started to plateau so I would do something that my energy would be such a thin line of having just enough where I would go out and I would do something physically strenuous or like moving house physically and emotionally strenuous, just totally wrecked me and I would be back out. And then being a woman and getting my cycle each month, I would just totally wreck me. And so this went on for months and months and months.

Abby (00:11:51) Fast forward to a couple of months ago. I’ve been on this Candida slash keto diet for almost a year. And if I were to go off of it in any way, I just kind of my body reacts, and I kind of regress. So it got frustrating and I felt like, okay, I’m still tired. A lot of the time. I’ve reached this point where I need more help, I need more support. And at around that same time I said, Hey, the universe, I need help, I have something I need to do that is beyond my awareness right now because I have a lot of skills. I am good at emotional healing, really good at shamanic and spiritual healing.

Abby (00:12:33) I know a lot of things and I’ve done a lot of things, but at the same time was I felt like I was inside of this situation, inside of this body, that I couldn’t just work, that something is going on in the body that I needed to listen to and I need to honor and integrate some kind of practice for healing. So at around this time, one of my previous classmates from a kind of shaman school, we were studying shamanic Chinese medicine and medical qigong together, reached out and said, Hey, I want to help you. I wanted to give you these sessions. I saw your post about Candida. I just feel called to work with you.

Abby (00:13:13) So I thought, wow, thank you. Who is, you know, my friend who was also an angel? How beautiful. So I was working with Janette. You know, once a week for. Well, I was working with Jeannette a little less regularly for several months, and then we started working together once a week for two months. And that was beautiful and powerful. It was like 2 hours every week doing this, this remote energy healing session from her. And then she also gave me these exercises to do on my own, these kinds of specialized qigong exercises. And so I know a lot of qigong exercises that I’ve learned that are helpful and powerful engines that have some other ones that she has studied separately because this is kind of this is her world.

Abby (00:14:03) We’re going to have her on soon and let her speak to it. But she kind of lives and breathes qigong and these kinds of exercises. So she taught me these really powerful, really beautiful ones. And when she first showed them to me, I said, okay, that’s great. Wow, I feel this is amazing. Okay, I’m going to do this. And I didn’t do it because I was tired and I was frustrated and I was just angry with life and it is not easier than it should be. Yada, yada, yada. And so. A few months later, we’re doing this work. She gives me some shorter exercises that are also very powerful and I’m able to do a couple of those.

Abby (00:14:43) And I thought, wow, I notice a big difference when I do that. And I thought I should do this. I think doing this every day will help. And then, of course, I didn’t do it for a long time. And then, I thought, okay, there’s a mental block I need to get over because I think the thing that’s stopping me here is me because I need to do my inner work. I need to do these exercises to move forward. So in my coach training class, we do these sort of recorded demo sessions that the students can listen to to get more examples of how different tools can be used. And I asked my husband, who is a life coach, to demo some of these tools with me to help my coach train students.

Abby (00:15:30) And so he coached me on wanting to and on why I wasn’t building up or doing my practice. So in my morning practice, when I get up, I do a bit of yoga, I do qigong, or at least I do these exercises from Janette. And he coached me on that. And if you want to hear it, let me know. I can record it. I can post it in another episode, so let me know about that. But anyway, he coached me on that. I was able to shed some tears of relief, get over this block, and within like 15 minutes. He’s a great coach. Anyway, after that, I thought I was able to get back to my practice because I had a personal healing practice, you know, on and off throughout my life.

Abby (00:16:16) And I had been neglecting it for quite a while and I knew part of my mind now, like I’m being called, to integrate what I know and with my body and to come home into the body. And so I started doing my practice again after getting coached by Dave the lovely Dave Moss. And I started doing these shorter exercises that Jeanette gave me. And they were so sure there are only about 3 minutes per pose. And I had about, I don’t know, like five of them. And so like 15 minutes.

Abby (00:16:57) And I was doing these exercises. They’re very physical like this. It’s just tendons stretching. So just like one of these, pushing your arms out to the side is stretching your middle finger up to the ceiling as high as you can and really opening up the chest and bringing the shoulders back and down. And you’re just kind of standing there with your arms to the side. But when you went for me, when I’m pushing and stretching my tendons, my whole body starts shaking. I feel all this heat pouring off of me. My hands and arms start tingling.

Abby (00:17:27) This is just a lot going on with these exercises because it’s opening up my energy pathways and it’s releasing blockages. And these are the blockages that are causing me to feel tired, to not digest properly, for my body to not function properly. So there are these blockages that have been accumulating for a very long time. And what I was doing in these exercises is opening up and releasing them. So this is not like if you were to see this process, it’s not a pretty graceful yoga flow. It’s hard, it is a shaky process. I’m often moaning or yelling or, you know, breathing heavily.

Abby (00:18:09) It’s messy. It’s like a little exorcism every time I do it. And after I do it, I feel amazing. And so I just started noticing I have energy. I have more energy than I’ve had in years. I can walk. I feel the power in my hips and my core. And I thought, Oh my God, this is so amazing, so amazing to have this sort of energy in my tank when it felt like my tank was just barely running on fumes for years. Because of this whole Peru-India thing that was like seven years ago. So this is the first thing that has impacted the way I feel in my body.

Abby (00:18:51) So it was motivating to do it more. And I started doing it more. And then when I had Energy Trip, my weekly energy session with Jeanette, she said, Hey, you’re able to pull Chee into your body. Now your things are flowing. It’s so different. And like, I know I’m doing the work you gave me to thank that work. But I needed to get over the mental block and to do the work. But now that I am, I’ve been feeling much better. I just feel so much happier. I’m just so overjoyed to be able to have a body that is not, you know, not perfect. It’s not like working 100%.

Abby (00:19:29) But I’ve got the energy to deal with whatever is going on now because without the energy that everything is too much, just too overwhelming the will to even do anything about it. It’s just not there. But with this energy, I can do it. I can deal with anything. I can overcome anything. So with that, I also felt way better emotionally, just emotionally regulated, because I’m working through these exercises and my liver purifies the blood and also regulates processes, emotions. So now that those channels are flowing properly, things just don’t bother me as much.

Abby (00:20:11) Opening up the heart space, supporting the spleen, which is tied to digestion. So I just have a lot more energy and I’ve been feeling called even do the exercises that Jeanette originally gave me that are longer, but they go deep and integrate those into my practice and just feeling just this deepening connection with my body, deepening, healing, this increasing energy and just this sense of gratitude for life and appreciation for this beautiful world that we’re in. And there are times when I remember feeling this way, too, when I did a lot of qigong when I was studying it in my earlier days.

Abby (00:20:58) Now that I’m getting back into doing a lot more as I feel a big shift, like a shake and I release, I feel a block release, the channel opens up and my eyes open and there’s this sense of vividness and crispness through the way I see through my eyes and this intense sense of presence and connection with my environment and my body. And it feels so different, so vivid, and crystal clear. And it’s like this moment of awakening that I’m experiencing through my body, through doing these exercises. And with that, it’s not even a place where any to write down.

Abby (00:21:40) I work through things in my head or, you know, process. It’s just breathing and moving and feeling and just stretching and just very much doing these exercises where a lot of the whole exercise could be sitting in one place and just doing some gentle arm movements and holding something for quite a while. But it’s moving our energy through my body and this very powerful, incredibly healing way. And I’ve always felt and in my experience, that healing is also awakening these to go hand in hand as we heal and release the blocks of what is untrue, what is painful, what you get on the other side of it is this deeper awareness and a deeper connection with what is true for you with what is free.

Abby (00:22:34) So as I’m releasing these blocks into my body, releasing these blocks from my body, my body is going through or I’m going through an awakening experience within my body. It’s a body awakening if you will. And it’s hard to imagine. It’s something that you need to experience as this sense of aliveness and vividness and clarity and lightness and beauty. And it’s just this connection with my body and with my environment that’s just so profoundly beautiful to experience. And so, yeah, it’s motivating, it’s encouraging. It’s something that my body begins to want to do. Before, when I was tired, it took extra energy to get up and do my dang exercises because I knew it would help.

Abby (00:23:30) I know it would be physical, I would shake a lot. I probably make lots of weird noises, but then I would feel much better for the rest of the day. Now I wake up and I crave it. My body tells me, Hey, I want you to go back and I want you to do that exercise that Jeanette told you showed you a while ago. So I go back and I do it. I feel amazing. I feel more things open up. I go for a walk with my dogs. I feel my alignment in my body is just. The way it’s supposed to be. And it’s just such an incredible thing.

Abby (00:24:04) And now it’s something that I’m kind of seeing as my part-time job while I’m healing the stuff that, you know, this quote-unquote chronic issues that have been here for years, I’m healing it inside of myself. And when things started to shift and it’s been giving me energy treatments for we started last fall. So it’s been a while, I think it was last September. And so she’s been giving me these treatments for some time. It was when I started doing the exercises myself, but she said, Hey, your energy feels way better, things are different.

Abby (00:24:42) And that’s when I noticed things feeling way better and different within my body, within my life. And it was something that shifted where I just decided, All right, I went on a diet. I know I can do hard things. I can just do my exercises even when I don’t feel like it. I can just get up each morning and do it. And if for some reason I miss a morning, I will get up and do it the next day. And it was like that switch was like, I just turned a light switch on where I decided to take an active role in my health and my healing. And instead of being frustrated with life and resentful that it wasn’t easier, that it was, you know, you know, my husband can eat whatever he wants and be fine, but I could sit there being all, you know, my pity party about that.

Abby (00:25:33) I could get up and do something about it. And that’s what I did. And that’s when everything started to change. And I’m so happy to have to be experiencing this, because it is this deeper level of integration, of taking responsibility for my health and my well-being. And with this, I’ve also been doing the emotional pieces of speaking to the issue, the pattern, and the reason for it of clearing entities. I’m a shaman. I do lots of entity clearing, so it’s a thing. It’s okay. Just entities attached to beliefs, you know, just darker energies.

Abby (00:26:13) So what the clearing of that along the way, which is also a dimension of this, but this part that I was missing was the personal practice and doing these really powerful qigong exercises that are targeted to exactly what I need, which, you know, for a lot of women who struggle with digestive issues and menstrual issues, it’s spleen and kidneys and with that liver. So I was doing these exercises. I still am. I probably will be for several more months. But I’m feeling so much better in my life and noticing so many differences in how I feel in my heart and how I, you know, just walk outside.

Abby (00:26:56) I just can’t help but appreciate how beautiful the sky and the trees are and the birds chirping because it’s springtime now and even when it’s cold as fuck is still beautiful in some way. So I’m just that’s where I’ve been. I’m just really grateful. I’m really happy. And I don’t want to say the word hopefully. I am hopeful, but I’m also just really confident that I can continue healing, that I’m moving in that direction. I need to be going in now. And with that, I wanted to mention Jeanette. So she is working in mind-body free now and we’re going to be bringing her in to do an episode soon so you can meet her there.

Abby (00:27:40) But she is going to be offering one on one sessions with people. You’ll be able to book it through the website. She offers amazing distance a.k.a remote energy healing treatments, so they’re focused on Chinese energetic medicine. Jeanette comes from a background of traditional Chinese family where they worked with herbs and diet for healing. And then she’s done so much learning and growth within the world of qigong and Chinese energetic medicine. So she offers this one-on-one session with people and she prescribes personalized exercises that you can do based on what you need.

Abby (00:28:24) And she’s also working in the mentorship program where she’s teaching some Qigong classes within the group there as well, and helping everybody to feel good and healthy in their body. Because a lot of us, you know, have been through stuff in this lifetime and past lifetimes. And part of healing the heart is also healing the body. Healing the body makes it easier to heal the heart, you know, all interconnected. So I’m really happy to be having Janette within the mentorship program as well. We’ve been getting so much great feedback. People have been having so many great questions for her.

Abby (00:29:02) So I am excited for you to all meet her in the next episode. And until then, I hope you are all doing beautifully. I hope that the story gave you some takeaways. I know for me the biggest takeaway from my journey was those few. One was just being open to receive help, to have the humility, to acknowledge that even though I’m skilled at this stuff, I need some help right now. And then being open to receiving that and, and then the shift in taking an active role in my well-being and doing the dang work and getting up each morning and doing the exercises that I know are so incredibly helpful for me.

Abby (00:29:50) So if you are on your journey of healing your body, I want you to know that you’re not alone, that you can heal anything. You’ve got this. You can do this. And if you want to support, you can reach out. You can schedule a free discovery call. I would be happy to support you myself or point you in the direction of someone who can help you heal. So sending you my love, you can reach me at as well as Instagram and Facebook @yourmindbodyfree. And if you like this episode or you find this content useful, I’d love to receive a review from you on iTunes. And if you have any questions for future episodes, just drop them in the comments or send me a message. All right. Have a great day. And you, my love.,


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Nick Loffree: Bioenergetic Health

Nick Loffree Mind Body Free Podcast
Nick Loffree Bioenergetic Health

Nick Lofree: Bioenergetic Health

In episode 17 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, Nick Loffree shares his journey of Bioenergetic Health and how he used meditation, diet, and Qigong to overcome schizophrenia and become the healer he is today.

This episode is for anyone struggling with mental health, looking for ways to heal their body or strengthen their own practice with the powerful yet gentle healing practice of Qigong. Nick has a ton of helpful Qigong videos on his Youtube channel, so go check them out!

Connect with Nick:
Instagram: @nickofqi
TikTok: @nickofqi
Youtube: Nick Loffree Bioenergetic Health
7 Day Brain Reset


Mind Body Free Podcast Love

Are you subscribed? If not, there’s a chance you could be missing out on some bonuses and extra show tools.  Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify to be sure you’re in the loop.  

Do you love the show? If so, I’d love it if you left me a review on iTunes. This helps others find the show and get integrative healing support. Simply click here and select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”. Thank you so much ❤︎

Looking for more support?
Schedule a free discovery call here
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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss, and today I’m getting to speak with Nick Lafley. Nick helps people attain their ideal mental and physical well-being through a bioenergetic toolkit. His work began with himself when he underwent a spiritual initiation of schizophrenia and subsequent health issues created by medication. He now helps thousands of people through his online courses, videos, and instructor certificates to achieve the same level of seemingly impossible healing. I found Nick through YouTube and one of his qigong videos, which was fantastic, and he’s got a ton of videos on there, so I highly recommend checking out all the notes. The links are going to be in the show notes after the show. So Nick, welcome. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. How are you?

Nick (00:00:52) Pretty good. It’s always funny. I never just copy-paste my bio. I like, always rewrite it every time somebody asks me for my bio, so I didn’t have to like surprises every time I had to read back to me. I’m like, Oh, what? I wrote about this site.

Abby (00:01:06) I like that. You’re honest about that. I did the same thing. I feel like it’s like this continuous evolution and how you feel that day and where you’re going and the direction you’re moving.

Nick (00:01:14) I was just assuming whatever ones I wrote in the past just were awful. So.

Abby (00:01:18) Exactly. So just delete all of those. I’ve never existed. So can you tell me a little bit about the work that you do? You mentioned you kind of help people through the bioenergetic toolkit. So what does bioenergetic mean?

Nick (00:01:34) You know, mostly just the way of making cheese sound palatable to Western Western minds, I guess. But it’s also partly a lot of my exploration recently over the last couple of years as being into. How there is a materialist science behind the energy of the body and its very sort of like super well known. So I dug for it for a long time before I found somebody who put forth a complete theory of bioenergy that had practical applications and seemed to be valid.

Nick (00:02:11) A lot of people, you know, people try to Westernize Xi and Chinese medicine and stuff like that a little, you know, they’ll be like, Oh, you know, quantum physics and, you know, quantum physics as these. Really, it’s almost esoteric. It’s so difficult to understand what people are trying and what scientists are trying to say with quantum physics that you can practically take anything they say and extrapolate it to be proof of whatever spiritual thing you’re talking about.

Nick (00:02:35) So I was dissatisfied with most of the westernized versions of theories of XI or things like that until I was just because I’ve been in the world of nutrition a long time and am kind of trying to figure out how to fix myself. I had a lot of physical health problems after my mental health problems because of the medications I took.

Nick (00:02:55) And so I went there, you know, every like dietary philosophy, as you know, did the keto. I did the raw vegan, I did the paleo, I did all of it, you know, every detox you can imagine. And eventually, I stumbled into this weird, weird world of a guy named Raymond Peat. And he’s a biologist. He’s like 85 years old now, so he’s been teaching about this stuff for a long time. But he, instead of coming into medicine from the, you know, a medical school or like a nutrition school, he came to it straight out of like just pure science, right? And so he’d been saying biophysics and biochemistry and everything.

Nick (00:03:32) And he was just very getting dissatisfied with the status quo that he was seeing in science and then was noticing medicine was doing a lot of weird stuff based on that. And so he built on the work of a few old scientists who are dead now, like Otto Warburg and on Sell You, Dr. Britta Barnes, who’d been, you know, all inadvertently working in their worlds, coming up with these theories of how energy and energy flow is what runs the body. And so Ray took these ideas and built them into something more practical, like, how would you eat if you wanted to follow this?

Nick (00:04:07) What supplements would you take if you believe this about the human body? And so instead of like what’s usually the way the human body is looked at is very like structural, mechanistic, mechanistic. And that’s typically the criticism that we have when we’re coming from the Chinese medicine land and we look at the Western medicine lens and it’s like, you guys just see everything is like a car.

Nick (00:04:26) You know, these little moving parts and particles and everything. And in, you know, in physics, they would say, like, you know, there’s we can look at the same particle like a photon and it can be a particle or a wave, depending on how you look at it, right? But most of medicine and biology are still on the kind of particle part of biology, I guess, and how we view the body. And so these guys are sort of getting more into the wave of how to view the body.

Nick (00:04:52) So instead of just structure its energy and structure and how these two inform each other, the energy maintains the structure. The structure produces the energy. And as I started learning from this guy’s method, I just kept realizing more and more like he’s just describing Chinese medicine, having never come across Chinese medicine as well. Maybe kind of give him a chance. Like he was saying a lot of weird things that I was like, the ZOE. This is true. Like, he thought serotonin was a stress chemical. It wasn’t a happiness chemical.

Nick (00:05:21) He thought it was like a bit of a conspiracy on the part of the pharmaceutical companies. They just needed a new thing to blame for depression so they could patent another drug for 20 years, you know? So they came in and around the same time, people, it was in the 60s. People were using LSD and psilocybin and stuff, and those block the serotonin receptors. And so he thinks that it was a kind of collaboration. The government wanted to make serotonin look good because LSD made serotonin look kind of bad enough. So. So they got the heir to the drug companies.

Nick (00:05:55) The antidepressants they were using at the time are a bit of a tangent, but the presence there isn’t at the time. We’re MAOI inhibitors, the same thing that you take when you take ayahuasca, the DMT drug. Mm-hmm. You have to take an MAOI and MAO inhibitor to have the DMT stay in your system. And that was the original antidepressants up until the 1960s, where they were taking that half of EOSIO basically as a pill to cure depression.

Nick (00:06:24) But in the 1960s, the patent ran out, and so they wouldn’t be making any money off it anymore because all the generic brands would take it over. So they needed a whole new theory of what causes depression so that they could sell a new drug, and they came out with this deficient serotonin theory anyway. So this guy, this guy thinks this is much better so serotonin can cause a lot of mental health problems. And I thought that was crazy and the only reason I gave any.

Nick (00:06:48) A chance is because his underlying theory was just Western Chinese medicine. And so his other theory was this just like what my teacher says and qigong when your stress lowers energy production. Like we tend to think in the West, like, Oh, stress is good for me. It makes me productive, right? I’d be so useless if I didn’t have my stress pushing me all the time. But eases your stress as a backup system.

Nick (00:07:11) You don’t want your stress being your main motivational sort of drive. That’s like your backup system. That’s why we wind up getting cancer and things like that. It’s not natural for the body to be having stress as a source of energy all the time. And so he thinks when the stress is low, you have higher energy and better quality energy. And when the energy’s high, you have lower stress. And he explains this all in terms of hormones and everything. But he’s essentially saying the same thing I’ve heard for years and years of qigong in Chinese medicine and everything.

Nick (00:07:40) So I gave him a chance with the serotonin thing and did a bunch of stuff, he said to lower my serotonin. And I got to say, like, it has a huge benefit on my mental health. I can track like, Oh, I stopped doing those Serotonin lowering things and now start to get a little depressed or to get a little more anxious than I usually am. And it’s just amazing how the mainstream can just be flipped on its head, and it can be the opposite for something we’ve been doing for 50 years.

Nick (00:08:04) And it can work. Wow. Did you have a question? I remember what your question was. Oh yeah. Why do I call myself bioenergetic? It’s because that’s the name for like, this school of thought is like the bioenergetic theory of health. And so I thought I would apply that to qigong and stuff.

Abby (00:08:20) It was a loaded question. That’s so interesting. And as someone who has done ayahuasca and still uses psilocybin, I find it helps my mental health quite a bit with ayahuasca. Definitely. I don’t know the chemical. I don’t have an experience of chemical serotonin exploration and lowering not to create happiness, but I want to. It’s kind of interesting how you mentioned, you know, we use more energy when we are stressed. I wonder if the serotonin release is a response to that stress and what you’re doing by lowering it is also affecting the cause of why your body feels the need to release it. I don’t know. I’m just exploring, but I think it’s fascinating.

Nick (00:09:02) Yeah. Here’s a really weird fact: you know where locusts come from. You know, the swarm is like a swarm of locusts, right, like in the Bible and stuff.

Abby (00:09:13) Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

Nick (00:09:14) His locusts are just grasshoppers. And it’s just when grasshoppers get super stressed because they don’t have food in their environment or things like that, then they transform into locusts instead of being serious instead of being peaceful, solitary grasshoppers. They swarm together. They form a mob and they go, go, and riot, and they physically transform. They get the gross spikes. They look more aggressive. They act more aggressively. They become cannon.

Abby (00:09:39) It’s like something that’s in an animal movie, but it’s real.

Nick (00:09:42) And the chemical that drives their transformation from grasshopper to locust is Serotonin.

Abby (00:09:47) That’s so interesting. I love that one species will transform like that. I get the term for it. But I know, like Candida, it’s a yeast that’s like, you know, harmless yeast and a balance. But then with stress and, you know, toxins and the wrong environment, it transforms itself into a fungus and then spreads throughout the body. So it’s so interesting that stress is always the factor, the contributing factor.

Abby (00:10:11) So, yeah, that’s so interesting, huh? Well, it makes sense that, you know, a plague of quote-unquote a plague of locusts if there are not great things happening in that time. Of all, these grasshoppers are getting stressed and starting a swarm every yeah

Nick (00:10:25) And eating at each other and stuff.

Abby (00:10:27) Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah, that sounds very fitting in the Bible story. Yeah. All right. So you went on quite this journey and you went on a big mental health journey. So it sounds like you integrate a lot of these lessons into yourself. Oh yeah. And seeing experientially what worked and what didn’t work? Yep.

Nick (00:10:46) It felt like an unknown. And what is that uncharted and trail or whatever? You know, as I was like, I’m like, I’m like seven, like seventeen. And I have psychosis and the doctors are just like, Oh, just take these pills. And I’m like, Is there anything else I should do? And they’re like, No, no, just the pill. Yeah. Like, I’m like, Have you heard of meditation? I just heard about the meditation things that I do out of there, like, worry about it, just take the pills.

Abby (00:11:11) And it’s sad. It’s such a loss for the ability to help people with this kind of thing. It’s interesting. Like in the shamanic perspective, mental illness and schizophrenia especially would be seen as a healer trying to be born where you’re accessing kind of these different dimensions and perceptions and states of being that are in like a really low frequency and you have this innate gift to perceive this stuff. But there’s a lot of healing that needs to happen to clear away that darkness and make it feel like a gift and not a burden.

Nick (00:11:43) Yeah, I was really lucky. I had read a book on shamanism like right before or right as if I was going into psychosis or something. So I kind of had that mental frame, like already kind of made for me, and I have a word for that. I think it would be a lot harder to get through because you think about it just as something you’re fighting instead of something you’re integrating or surrendering into like that. Yeah, yeah.

Abby (00:12:05) You’re not broken and you’re just going through an initiation. As you said, when you’re yeah,

Nick (00:12:09) I think that’s part of it. Yeah, when I was able to relax and because a big part of it was just constant paranoia. So it was like the hallucination part and delusion part. But then it’s just like it’s paranoid and full of fear all the time. And when I was able to let go of the paranoia and fear part, the hallucination delusion part would sort of instead of being like all this crazy stuff, my mind was trying to convince me that it became like holy visions as I would.

Nick (00:12:35) I knew nothing. I knew nothing about Hinduism, but for whatever reason, I was having visions of, like Hindu gods all the time. If I could relax like my chocolate open and these gods would come to visit me, they wouldn’t say anything. It’s just ignored. There’s like this visual art. Almost that was like reshaping my energy body or something like that. Amazing. I kind of miss it now because I know, I know that a little too much with the medication. Oh, and now I’m like, Oh, I wish I could just relax at night and hang out with gods and stuff.

Abby: Oh well, I can help you with that. We can talk about that, OK? I had a friend or not a friend. She’s a friend now, but I had a student I worked with for a year and she had schizophrenia, and she grew up as early as she can remember seeing demons all around her. And just like Tara, terrifying. And so we did a lot of healing on the trauma and like the layers of trauma as there is, there’s a lot to release and as we release it layer by layer, she started seeing angels and she started seeing the demons as these misguided energies and learning how to work with them and healing energies. Incredibly powerful healer.

Abby (00:13:39) It’s been amazing to watch her grow into herself and realize this, but I feel like I also have an uncle with schizophrenia, and it didn’t go that direction because he didn’t have anyone to support him in that journey. You have this intuition and this will move into this stuff, which is beautiful. I feel like if more people have the right support, we have a lot more healers in the world than like, you know, people who are still being tormented by this stuff.

Nick (00:14:04) Yeah, I agree. Yeah, this is funny. I think it’s a funny thing in the West. Swear. You know, our history in Europe is like the church and the scientists were like they hated each other, right? Because the church was like, we not only do we own spiritual truth, we are objective truth, right?

Abby (00:14:22) They want to do whatever.

Nick (00:14:23
Nick: They like to overstep their bounds with their like field of expertise. And so the people who are trying to discover objective truth in the physical world were totally at odds with them. And so we’ve developed a culture, you know, hundreds of years later, we’re still in this culture where, you know, if you’re a scientist, if you’re a psychiatrist or psychologist or whatever like, you’re expected to think a certain way, like demons aren’t real. Angels aren’t real. Psychic abilities aren’t real.

Nick (00:14:48) Like anybody who thinks these things have to be delusional, like, I’m sure some people are just like hallucinating, but probably a lot of people are hallucinating. But I think there’s a lot of this like in my experience with what I went through. I don’t know how much you know about my story, but I had real experiences of supernatural phenomena. And you tell the psychiatrist about that, and I wasn’t integrating it well. I was super paranoid.

Nick (00:15:09) So they go to a psychiatrist and there’s like, oh, supernatural phenomena, schizophrenic. Like, you’re just crazy. And it’s like, Yeah, I’m like trying to do experiments with them and everything like, let’s see if this is real. And they have no patience for that at all.

Abby (00:15:22) Yeah, because it’s not aligned with the belief system, right? It’s like it’s been against the popular ideology. And I’m popular. It was illegal to explore that stuff.

Nick (00:15:32) Is that what it was?

Abby (00:15:34) Well, I mean, back in like the pagan Christian colonialism, I mean, it was illegal to practice other forms of spirituality and kind of commune with spirits. Yeah. And then eventually became just going to be demonized in the media. And oh, it’s not real. It’s all false. And then there’s like you mentioned, that materialist perspective of this is what’s real, only what we can measure.

Nick (00:15:56) Yeah, they’re like the new church itself. It’s so funny. Yeah. So this always happens like a group that’s persecuted. And then finally they win the day and now they’re the most powerful group. And then there’s persecution, you know, it was just so ridiculous like that

Abby (00:16:10) We’ll find balance someday, I think. Yeah, perspective is good, and I like what you’re doing. your kind of bridging these two worlds of science and energy in Chinese medicine, which China is and I think can seem like it can appear as a kind of woo and like, what? What are you talking about? Like, I know when we were taught, they told us that, you know, Western medicine sees the body like a machine, which can be useful sometimes. Like, if I break my arm great, I will happily go see Western Doctor.

Abby (00:16:36) Chinese medicine sees the body like a garden. So we have to pluck the weeds. We have to balance the elements and the nutrients and plant good seeds. And it’s such a different, totally different paradigm, a way of seeing things and working through things

Nick (00:16:49) Uses a lot of metaphors and the west. I think the Western mind is so literal when you hear the metaphor like, oh, dampness or, you know, damp heat or things like that. And we’re talking about blood in Chinese medicine, we don’t always mean blood, you know, it’s like this kind of blood, you know, like spiritual blood. Go to that man. So in the western mind is that they think they’re like, really hearing like, oh, there’s dampness. Like, there’s like a build-up of fluid somewhere.

Nick (00:17:12) Well, sometimes we mean that, but sometimes it’s like, this thing is like, it’s like, it’s like the Chinese are separate, like metaphor and literal like literal reality and a lot of the ways they talk really. Chinese medicine Typekit. So it was very confusing to the Western mind. So we just classify it as we were, you know?

Abby (00:17:30) Yeah. I think it’s more like that soft kind of flowing abstract concept, a way of seeing things which I love personally. But I can see it also being infuriating if you’re used to being able to, like, clearly define things. So if you were struggling with these mental health issues when you were 17, which is early on, I mean, not uncommon as a teenager, but that’s tough. What was it like moving through that?

Nick (00:17:58) Is Just kind of terrifying all the time. For the most part. And then and then really amazing at some points like, as I mentioned, it’s kind of spiritual, energetic experiences. But for the most part, yeah, just mostly just sucked all the time. And then and then the medication sucked almost as bad as it did suck as bad. So it was worth taking. I guess it felt worth taking at the time, but it’s just like the opposite problem with you. I went from, like, in a psychotic state. It was like I was like, everything was so open energetically. It was like, as all boundaries.

Nick (00:18:31) I dissolved, and that just was terrifying. And then the pills are like the opposite. I got numb and I got fat and I got just full of mucus and skin inflammation and pimples. And just like the total opposite problem. Instead of being super anxious and fearful all the time, it’s like, I’m depressed and brain fog all the time. So, yeah, mostly it was just super lame, but gradually over the years, like learning different things, getting into meditation and yoga and nutrition and qigong. And I wouldn’t have put so much effort into those things and gotten as much out of them if I hadn’t been in so much pain.

Nick (00:19:09) So the first tool I tried to implement was meditation. A friend of mine had gotten me a book on Buddhist meditation while I was in the mental hospital. So I read that in the hospital and then when I got out, I practiced every day and it was kind of like it wasn’t an instructional book. It is a fictional story, I believe the Buddha said of his actual story of attaining enlightenment. I think it was like a fictional version that was meant to read like a novel. But in this version, he gains enlightenment by sitting next to a river and just listening to the sound of the river.

Nick (00:19:40) And that was like the thing he focused on was just that sound. And that was like a meditation technique. And so I was like, Well, that’s the only way to meditate. So I’ll do that. So I went to this river near my parent’s house like every day for literally three or four hours every day. And like me now, never do that way too uncomfortable. I’ll do that for like a week. I’ll do that for a retreat. But I do this for like six months straight and I’ll sit on these like uncomfortable rocks in a very uncomfortable body. I hadn’t done yoga or anything yet, so my body doesn’t like sitting like that and stuff.

Nick (00:20:12) And I’ll just force my mind like over and over and onto the sound of the river. And I got nothing out of it, nothing out of it. For six months, I didn’t feel more relaxed. And if it were peaceful or spiritual, nothing until like finally, what like on the six months or whatever, I’m sitting there and I put my mind on the river and it finally actually stays. It doesn’t wander off. It doesn’t go and listen to whatever voices are in my head. If you think meditating is tiring with just your voice in your head, you just try it with a whole bunch of voices in your head. But I finally got my mind to stay on this river, and I don’t even think it was that long. It was like 30 seconds, maybe a minute top where my mind was just dead silent, just hearing the river.

Nick (00:20:51) And I think about it is, I guess, my conscious mind because my conscious mind was so empty of thought at that moment. My unconscious was able to come out. And so all like the inner conflict I had, I was sort of driving the psychosis, the fearful part of the psychosis, basically just everything I hated about myself. I have low self-esteem, social anxiety, and stuff growing up. So it’s just like everything in me that I hated came out as one archetype like a mask of a demon, just like displaying and like vivid, horrifying detail like this is everything you hate about yourself.

Nick (00:21:26) But instead of seeing it as a mask of someone else, it was just like, This is you. And believing it for a split second and that fear like, oh no. And then the mask comes off and I’m looking at it as what it was. It was just a mask. And underneath that, seeing who I am, someone a kid worthy of love and worthy blah blah blah. And then I just basically cried for like 20 minutes of just snot pouring out of me into this river. And I’d like to say, Oh, after that moment, like I was healed of the psychosis was God.

Nick (00:22:00) Not at all. It was just like, it was like, you know, one percent of the burden is lifted and just a little glimpse into like, Oh, I because I had a feeling when I was going through it that a lot of this psychosis was driven by my insecurity. At times, I got bullied by things like that. And then I had this like unconscious trauma in me, and that the psychosis wasn’t just random because all my friends were doing all the same drugs and all the crap I was doing and they were psychotic.

Nick (00:22:25) So I figure there’s probably something in me that needs to come out in that kind of verify form for me want to had that experience, but I suppose my point to your question was I would probably not have pushed myself that hard for that long to get that if I wasn’t in such an immense amount of pain with no other options. So for that and that way, I’m grateful for it.

Abby (00:22:45) 100%. I mean, that’s what I think of so many people’s stories that start with pain and that’s a motivator, because why else would we bother to do the work? It’s work. You want it. I’m impressed that you did that for six months, not feel like you were getting anywhere but kept going back. That takes a lot of faith. Yeah, I don’t know why I do.

Nick (00:23:02) I think I just really trust the Buddhists because before, before I went psychotic, I’d been using psychedelic drugs and having amazing experiences on them and experiencing, you know, like the non-self and all the things that the Buddhists preach about enlightenment and then going without having read their text.

Nick (00:23:22) I experienced that first and then went and kind of got into Buddhism when I was reading their stuff and I’m like, Oh, well, this is exactly like what I experienced, so these guys must be on to something. And so I think because of that sort of thing, I had a lot of trust in what they had to say about how the mind works and stuff.

Abby (00:23:36) So a good friend, give me that book. Maybe he’s down. You get what you need when you need it when you’re ready for it, I guess. Yeah. Wow. OK. And so after that, how did you start getting into this by your energetic healing and qigong in Chinese medicine? Yeah.

Nick (00:23:52) So again, very similar. So I had been doing these psychedelic drugs, and I was experiencing like the chakras or the energy centers or the Dentons, basically exactly as they were laid out in those eastern classics I was experiencing on psychedelics before I was psychotic. And then while I was psychotic when I was just kind of permanently, it was like a lot of psychedelics. And when I relax, I would have these chakras and things open.

Nick (00:24:20) And so I was experiencing those oftentimes before I’d read anything about them and they went all the way up to like 22. Was like five years later, I was still having these experiences. I would come out of meditation or things like that, and then I’d go read a book and be like, Oh my gosh, this is exactly what they said. What happened? So it was sort of happening to me, and that’s what got me interested in the chakras. And then I was reading about yoga, and then my mom was getting into yoga and she’s like, You just come to a yoga class.

Nick (00:24:44) I thought I would get it. And I went to a yoga class and fell in love with it because that was the first physical thing. I’d been introduced to it before. That hadn’t occurred to me whatsoever that anything physical would affect my mind. Not diet, not movement, not sweating, not anything. I just thought, Oh, the mind fixes the mind, so I’m going to meditate like that. The mind thing and I have a mental problem. But when I did my first yoga class, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is the first time I’ve been relaxed and like, two years, where do I get more or less?

Nick (00:25:10) So I got, like, instantly addicted to yoga, like real physicals, like power, yoga, like, you know, use your muscles to move, your body goes up and you know, you can feel how doing the practice opens up the body’s energy. And so I just kept that curiosity going. And it gosh, it was like four years of this, four years of like meditation and yoga before I realized, Oh, I wonder what I’m eating has any effect on my brain or anything like that? I don’t put it together at all. I was eating fast food three meals a day for four years while being a practicing Buddhist meditator and like a serious yoga practice.

Abby (00:25:46) Kudos to you. Feel that a lot of focus on the mind of being through that.

Nick (00:25:52) Utterly Mcdonald and KFC and everything every day. And I think it was like, literally, I like reconnecting with an old friend and he’s like, Have you heard of this acid-alkaline thing? And I was like, What does that mean? And I started reading, I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, I never even connected the dots at all that like my skin problems like eczema, like mental health problems. All this stuff can have anything to do with what I was eating. Looking back, it’s like, I have no idea how that was not even on my radar at all. Isn’t that weird to not connect that at all?

Abby (00:26:22) Maybe you’re just like one at a time, you know, just like really chose the path of like, I’m going to figure this out one at a time.

Nick (00:26:29) I just didn’t even occur to. Meaning that it can be possible, and I still get surprised to this day. I like I’ll post on TikTok. Something about our diet can affect depression or this or that. I constantly get somebody in my comments who is so mad at me that I would suggest such a thing. They think I’m like, just some kind of quack, like trying to lead people off their medications, or I never tell people to quit their medicine.

Nick (00:26:52) I think I just give suggestions for other stuff they could do alongside it. People are constantly like, you’re going to trick people into thinking, if they kill, they’re going to be able to go off their meds. And then my words here is that

Abby (00:27:04) There are a lot of triggers in the world, like if someone’s in pain and it can be easy to want to point fingers. There’s a really good audiobook I listen to. You have to remember the name of it, but a psychiatrist and a chef, and she’s it’s all about the gut-brain connection. Is it

Nick (00:27:19)  Kelly Brogan?

Abby (00:27:20) Kelly Brophy? Indians are probably not, but I mean, that’s good. There are many books on this topic because they should be so huge. Yeah. You know, she talks to you about how you can’t. If you have had a mental condition for a long time, likely, there’s also something going on in the gut, and you can’t treat one without treating the other like you need to look at them holistically. And I’ve noticed that on my health journey, like if I eat the wrong thing, my body is very responsive. It gives me a lot of feedback. Within minutes, I know with my mood, if I if it was right or not, I have the same

Nick (00:27:52) Blessing and a curs

Abby (00:27:53) Sensitive. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s like you just you. There’s not a lot of wiggle room to keep messing up, if you know better to keep listening to that motivating force, right? With the psychedelics being a part of your journey, it’s found that like personally, when I did ayahuasca, it was incredible and transformative. And then coming back and trying to integrate that was just a shit storm, and it was a matter of like, OK, what are all the tools? What did everyone do before? Like the yoga qigong, the meditation? It’s kind of like standing back on your power, learning how to get back to the place you met, which plants showed you by being able to do it on your own?

Nick (00:28:33) I think a lot of people get lost where they just keep going back to the plants back, back, back, back and they never, they built, get some discipline in their life to kind of integrate and implement the stuff they learned and all get a lot of lost souls.

Abby (00:28:46) It’s true. Yeah, you know, it can be really powerful with the right additional support and the will and knowing that we’re not powerless to start doing this stuff. You can feel like you’re at a loss when you just look at what Western medicine says. And you know, a food diet has nothing to do with mental health like it can feel disheartening. Like, like, there’s no hope for you until you start trying things and believing that it’s possible to heal, which you seem to have no problem doing. So how did you get into doing that qigong?

Nick (00:29:20) She gave us a funny story. I was cleaning toilets at a gym for a job, and there there’s an inspiring moment. You know the chop-chop wood carries water, I guess. But I was like, I was halfway through my yoga teacher training. It was like a split up over a year, and I’m just trying to make money while I’m going through it. And there’s an acupuncturist slash bongos on the teacher, so like a Chinese martial artist who was at the gym operating out of there. And he’s like, Oh, if you love yoga, like, I bet you’re going to love qigong. And he sent me a YouTube video of this guy named Li. Hold on to him from the qigong world.

Abby (00:29:58) I don’t know, I’m OK.

Nick (00:29:59) I was going to say he’s the most famous name in Chicago, but maybe not. Yeah, he got famous because this DVD has gone on to PBS television for it. So it’s not anymore because it’s exercise stuff isn’t a thing anymore, but it was on PBS and all over the country for a while. But anyway, it seems like a little seven-minute qigong routine of just like, really gentle, like flowing slow-motion exercises that you link with your breath also very slow.

Nick (00:30:26) And I tried it, and I just couldn’t believe like how like just seven minutes of that made me feel so, so relaxed, like I’ve been doing a long time of yoga and meditation and things like that, and I’m like, Wow, that is the quickest path I have ever taken to being super relaxed and no anxiety. And I went to bed after that and my whole body just felt like it was made of cotton. And, at the time, I had this giant walk on the bottom of my foot. It was enormous, super deep. And I had it for like four years, and I went to the doctors over and over again to cut it off, like frozen off.

Nick (00:30:59) They burned it off, medicated it, and just kept coming back. And as I’m lying there in bed, I’m like, I wonder if I can make this work. Go away with this cottony energy I’m feeling. I just kept sending my breath and my attention. And eventually, this energy starts going to my foot or those waters, and my foot just starts kind of buzzing with that energy. And I kind of fall asleep while I’m doing this. But when I wake up, this word is not only gone, it’s so gone. It looked like it was never there, like the skin on the bottom, I flipped over. I like completely regrown and I never came back and

Abby (00:31:30) That’s miraculous.

Nick (00:31:32) But I later learned from Dr. Andrew Weil, who’s that, you know, have these kinds of famous for? He’s a real M.D., but he kind of makes his fame off of talking about, you know, holistic stuff and Mind-Body Medicine. He said that the number one illness that tends to respond best to mind medicine, like healing something with your awareness or a placebo or attention or visualization is warts. I have no idea why, but it says that’s like the most responsive illness that now

Abby (00:32:00) So physical. I know. Yeah, that’s great evidence. Aside from feeling fantastic, here’s some materialist evidence you change something on your body overnight.

Nick (00:32:11) So I was hooked just because it felt so good. And also, I’ve always been like a big, nature guy. So I love that, you know, all the movements are like a bear swims in the ocean and like the creams spreads its feathers, stuff like that. So I thought it was cool. So I got into it and I was just finishing up my yoga teacher training. So when I went back, I had to teach an exam, like teaching a little class to the classes, like part of graduating. And so I brought in some of those qigong moves into it and everybody loved it.

Nick (00:32:40) And so I was like, Oh, this is cool. And then when I got back from the yoga teacher training, I’d overstretched a whole bunch of my connective tissues. So like while I was going through the second half of this training, like every forward fold I did felt like someone was just sighing off my hamstrings and

Abby (00:32:57) I’ve been there. Yeah. So it’s hard at the training center.

Nick (00:33:00) It’s a lot of yoga to do all at once. It’s like you’re doing four hours of intense yoga.

Abby (00:33:05) That’s too much for the body.

Nick (00:33:07) It’s too much to kind of pack it all in like that, I think. But also, you know, I a good teacher and he’s like, like the main thing he was trying to teach this whole time was like, you know, listen to your body, listen to the instructions, listen to your body, like, take a break if you need to get to listen to all because I’m like twenty-two and I’m like the only guy in a room full of like twenty-five beautiful women. And I’m like, I don’t want to be the guy sitting out like I was. I’m trying to show off.

Nick (00:33:32) I just kept pushing through it, even though I felt like I was just getting ligaments sawed off. And by the time I finished the training, I’m like, Man, it hurts every time I do yoga. So I go to physical therapy and the physical therapist is like, Move me around. Like, Does this hurt? Am I hurt? I’m like, No, he’s like, You don’t have any pain. I’m like, Well, I just have pain when I do yoga. So can you fix that? And he’s like, Oh, how about you just don’t do yoga for a while? And I was like, I just could. I just literally dropped out of college and spent the tuition money, my last tuition money for college on a yoga teacher training.

Nick (00:34:01) Like, I invested everything in this thing and now I couldn’t even do yoga, let alone teach it. And I had some classes lined up to teach. And so instead of bailing on them, I was like, Well, for whatever reason, I can’t do yoga, but I can do qigong. Even the stretching parts of qigong I could do without the pain because it’s just like this different style of stretching that involves fluid movement while you’re stretching and stuff for a reason that didn’t aggravate things. So I just started teaching. I called a Chinese yoga class, and that way I could sort out those classes if people aren’t too disciplined.

Abby (00:34:32) Yeah, it’s amazing how much can happen with such a gentle approach. Something I love about qigong is that it is so gentle like all ages, all abilities. You can do it sitting down. You can do it lying down. Do it in your mind. Yeah, it all helps make me think of a situation where, you know, even though yoga is good for you, you do push it to a point and create stress. It starts becoming bad for you. But I’ve never found that with qigong, where it’s gotten to a point where it creates stress as I’m moving through a block and then I feel amazing a few minutes later.

Nick (00:35:04) But yeah, the only bad side effect. I’ve got another qigong or a couple sometimes that can aggravate the knees. A few misaligned things. It’s actually like 10 tennis elbow or a golfer’s elbow. You get qigong and tai chi me. That’s usually from just kind of standing the wrong way and stuff. And the other one is more energetic. We’re like. Comes from using too much mental effort while you’re doing qigong, so a lot of people get obsessed with it, visualizing part of it.

Nick (00:35:32) It’s like there are all these cool generalizations. Imagine this like going here that like going there and oh, you’re in a mountain and now there are birds. And so they get hooked on this idea that like, I’m going to control the tree with my mind, you know? Mm hmMm-hmm, what they don’t realize is, what they often do is like, let’s say you’re trying to move the chair to your lower abdomen. Well, if all the effort is coming from your head, from your mind, trying to direct the cheek that she’s going to go to your head to give energy to that mental effort.

Nick (00:36:02) And so I would add this period for like a year. I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I’d be doing qigong. I thought it was doing everything right. But at the end of practice, I’d have all this pressure in my head and give me brain fog, and I’d wind up getting really angry and easily irritable, and I couldn’t sleep. And I was like, What’s going on? What happened to qigong practice? Eventually, I learned that trying to force things too much mentally?

Abby (00:36:25) Do you find it because you teach qigong? Do you find that happens a lot with your students? Is that a common thing as Western people make thinkers?

Nick (00:36:33) It happens a lot in the qigong world, but not really with my students because I discourage it.

Abby (00:36:39) That’s good. So how did you go from that to what you’re doing now? Like, how did you feel called to start sharing this with people?

Nick (00:36:48) I just kind of know it all. I think I learn new things. I just want to tell everybody so I can either tell all my friends and family and annoy them and knock it. I’m not getting paid and they’re just being annoyed all the time because they want to listen to me. Or I could find people who want to hear what I have to say, and they want to give me money. And that’s everybody’s happy. So.

Abby (00:37:07) So fulfilling. Hey, I’ve been there also,

Nick (00:37:10) You know, desire to help the world, blah blah blah. I have to.

Abby (00:37:14) Yeah, it all kind of goes together, right? Whatever motivation. And did you ever find that like, I mean, for you? It doesn’t. I mean, for me, anyway, I found, as I’ve been on this kind of shamanic healing path and with qigong, there’s like this little part of the back of my mind that’s like, you can’t remember, like for you. You did. But like for me, if I had a word on my toe, my mom would be like, You need to go get some sort of hard chemicals to put on that thing because energy is not going to move that look. Look how dense and physical that matter is. Do you find that that’s something that you ever had to overcome? Or do you find that in your students of moving through that sense of doubt, they can come up?

Nick (00:37:54). Students, I think I’ve got a weird personality trait where when somebody, when somebody says something is impossible, it makes me like, just want to do it more.

Abby (00:38:05) So that’s a good trait.

Nick (00:38:08) So I feel like that’s helped me a lot. But I do. I ran into it not a ton with students. I have all kinds of students so actually there’s always something they believe to an extent, you know, and then it’s like, Oh, well, you can’t do anything about that with nutrition, you know, it’s like. Oh, now that I have cancer, I’m going to stop coming to chew gum in class because I need to go to chemo all the time and it’s like, Well, why don’t you do both? I say, Well, cancer’s too serious for qigong, so there’s not that kind of stuff that happens with COVID.

Nick (00:38:42) It happened a lot, you know, just people just don’t want to hear. And even people who have been doing qigong for ages, really want to hear like that. It’s like qigong could be helpful or there are dietary things that could be helpful because they’re in my class for maybe an hour or a couple of times a week. But then they’re watching the news like, you know, six hours a week. And so it’s just you’re kind of competing, you’re competing with a lot. You know, everything I teach, I always try to be like, you know, like, I don’t want to take full responsibility for you dying of cancer or something.

Nick (00:39:12) I’m not going to tell you to stop doing chemo or something like I’m going to pretend I know everything about, like how chemo works or how effective it is. But I know that like, other stuff also helps. And so when it comes to mental health, especially like I always try to be like, like, I’m not going to be the one to tell you to stop taking your meds, work with your doctor. If you feel like, you know, doing qigong or fixing your diet or something has given you a little more foundation where you feel a little more stable and you want to think of talk about weaning off your meds, like go to your doctor and talk to them about weaning off the meds.

Nick (00:39:44) Tell them you feel more stable. You don’t have to tell them why, because you tell them it’s qigong. They’re going to think it’s a bunch of B.S. and they all do whatever you’re selling them, you’re so much more stable. You want to experiment, you want to work with them more than they’re usually like, happy to help you out with that. But I never want to be the guy to tell people, don’t do this or don’t do that. But people, people do have a lot of limitations where they like, Oh, like, what does food have to do with your brain?

Nick (00:40:07) Your brain’s obviously in a capsule, outside your body, on another planet, somewhere in everything you eat. It’s not like it goes into your bloodstream and affects your brain and builds your brain and builds all the chemicals in your brain.

Abby (00:40:20) Not at all like that? No.

Nick (00:40:21) So I was always kind of funny running into people’s closed minds about that.

Abby (00:40:25) So I think it’s I mean, it sounds like you’ve got a grounded approach where you understand a lot of the scientists who have this sort of a blend of sounds like western and eastern medicine. So you can kind of speak to it. What’s actually from that material’s perspective, but also speak to that deeper, energetic layer, what needs to happen? I feel like if you can say, OK, here’s what’s happening to your brain right now and explain it in a way that is very relatable to what we’re used to hearing from scientists and doctors but also can add the other dimension.

Abby (00:40:56) I feel like that can open up worlds for people. For me, I’m very much like, I’m too abstract like I feel and experience that way. I’m not an encyclopedia of facts, so if people want that, I’m just like, You got to go see somebody else help you with that. But it’s really helpful for kind of opening up minds to the possibility of this being something that does things.

Nick (00:41:18) Yeah. Have you heard of them? There’s a French woman, a shaman named Karrine, something like a Mongolian. She trained in Mongolian shamanism.

Abby (00:41:28) I need to look into more people, and I’ve not heard of most people. But tell me about her.

Nick (00:41:34) Oh, this is well known. But yeah, she was a Frenchwoman. I think she was. I had heard what she was studying. She was an anthropologist or something, and she went to do her Ph.D. by living with the shamans in Mongolia and studying them. And as soon as she got there, as soon as she went to her first ceremony and as soon as the shaman started hitting the drum, she fell onto the floor, having seizures, and went into a shamanic trance. So the shamans were like, You’re not here to study here to become a shaman, just say no.

Nick (00:42:03) And so they trained her for like eight years or something. And when she came back, she had all this scientific training. And so she wanted to kind of bridge the gap. And she wound up taking a bunch of shamans from Mongolia and a bunch of schizophrenics from France and putting them in MRI machines to scan their brains while they’re in a shamanic trance or having a psychotic break. And when she showed these scans to neuroscientists, they couldn’t tell the difference between the brain of a schizophrenic patient and the brain of a shaman in a trance.

Abby (00:42:35) I think that’s amazing, but it also doesn’t surprise me.

Nick (00:42:38) It doesn’t surprise me at all.

Abby (00:42:39)
Abby: That’s so fascinating. What’s this woman’s name?

Nick (00:42:41) So I know her first name is Corrine C.O.R., and if you take like Corrine, Mongolian French shaman,

Abby (00:42:49) Or yeah, I’ll see if I can find her. That’s so fascinating. And any kind of lines up to it like that shamanic view of mental illness, being a healer, trying to be born like if your mind open and you have this ability to sense what’s going on around you, it’s like, OK, let’s just clear the lens through which you’re seeing it. Is it through pain, trauma and darkness, and attachments to that or fear? Or is it through the light that you are and the light around you and you know, the experiences of those past stories?

Nick (00:43:21) I think Joseph Campbell,

Abby (00:43:23) Have you heard of just, Oh yeah, yeah, that is one of her. We’ve followed this account.

Nick (00:43:29) You probably know what it is, the schizophrenic or maybe the psychotic? I remember what he says, but the psychotic or schizophrenic drowns in the same water that the shaman or the mystic?

Abby (00:43:40) I have. I have read that that’s a beautiful quote and encapsulates what we’ve been talking about. So well, I think. So if there are people out there who are struggling with their mental health, what would you want them to know?

Nick (00:43:53) It’s going to be hard. It’s going to take a long time. It’s going to take you people listening less time than it took me, excuse me. It was like 10 years before I really felt like I’m going to have, like pretty much overcome the stuff I can live a normal life quotation marks. But it’s going to take you guys less time because you found people like us here. It’s kind of like going through a lot of this and helping a lot of people. I spent a long time there. I was just reading books, lots of DVDs.

Nick (00:44:22) I never really talked to anybody who knew what they’re talking about for the first, probably like six years of going through this, I was just doing it all on my own. The people I like. You were like psychiatrists, so make use of it if you can get like. If you can talk one on one with somebody, you should really because it can, it’s just really going to take you a lot further, a lot quicker than trying to do it on your own, especially when you’re suffering from mental health problems. What’s wrong is that your mind isn’t working optimally, so trying to figure everything out on your own can take even longer because, you know, it’s a little harder to use your intuition and use your own guidance.

Nick (00:45:04) And it’s just nice to just have a team of support and people that can help you out on maybe on both sides of the East-West divide. And yes, that’s going to level up quickly. It’s not something that I can tell you to do. The action was like, Oh, eat this diet or do this, you’re going to find what works for you like. So just one thing I’ll say is that a big thing that’s in like the Daoist like Chinese medicine world, like a perspective on healing, like one lens that they’ll sometimes look through is if there’s something wrong with your mind, focus on healing your body and if something wrong with your body, focus on healing your mind and spirit. And it doesn’t always have to look like that, but sometimes that’s just a little easier.

Nick (00:45:51) Way to go about it is, you know, your mind’s having all this trouble. So really leaning on your mind’s abilities for your healing can sometimes be not as reliable, right? Going to your body, doing yoga and eating better and taking herbs and things like that can sometimes be a little. You can get a lot more of a foothold there. And then once you have that little more foundation of your body supporting your mind, bring in more mental stuff, spiritual stuff, things like that can be very useful and beautiful.

Abby (00:46:19) I like that perspective, too, like, OK, my mind’s not working great, but I’ve still got this body. How can I use that to help this part? That’s not running? Often we’ll jump in. All right, I’m going to jump into the painful part and navigate stuff within that spine. And especially to try and do it by yourself. Yeah, that is hard. Yeah, I’m a huge believer in having a team of support. It’s helped me so much in my life and I will probably work with other healers, guides and coaches for the rest of my life as well as you, the Chinese medicine, doctors of the body and, the Western medicine doctors for, you know, a handful of things. But yeah, yeah,

Nick (00:46:55) Having a lot of spiritual healing just comes from the feeling of being supported by family, even despite the advice they gave you. Yeah. For me, getting like my qigong teacher became like my number one mentor throughout. Still, to this point in my life is like my number one mentor, and I was like that filled in a huge, like healing gap in me. I had a very cold, distant father who, you know, I didn’t ever experience like, like warm, loving, supportive energy from a man. And when I got that from my qigong teacher, it filled a hole in my heart. And that was I felt like a big part of my healing process besides him just teaching me cool stuff.

Abby (00:47:32) Yeah, that’s beautiful. So much of that is just getting that nourishment that we need, you know, coming into the world with love, acceptance, belonging, community. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t have to come from your parents or political climate.

Nick (00:47:48)  Yeah. Yeah, there are studies on that. A lot of people will talk about how, you know, having homes without fathers present can be bad, especially for young boys growing up. But if you were kind of looking into the data, it’s actual communities without fathers. So it doesn’t matter that much if your home specifically has a father. But if the community does not like nurturing, supportive, protective, caring men who will just play the father role regardless of their biological status with you or whatever, that has the same positive effects.

Abby (00:48:19) That’s so interesting and so good to know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, amazing. Such social creatures. Are. Yeah. So for people wanting to work with you, how would they go about doing that? What kind of stuff do you do with people?

Nick (00:48:34)  Yeah. So the easiest way to jump in with me is just to go to YouTube. I got tons of qigong routines, and a lot of them are like themes towards something you might be going through. So like, you know, checking for anxiety, to account for depression, to for neck pain, low back pain, all kinds of stuff like that. So that’s the easiest way to jump in and see if you know my kind of style of movement and breath and everything. Therapy is helpful for you. And then if you want to work with me one on one, if you go to my website, there’s a coaching tab or something like that there. So you can go one on one there.

Nick (00:49:09) And then, yeah, that yeah, I post lots of advice and stuff on TikTok and Instagram and things like that. Just follow me there and see what kind of stuff I like. Oh, I forgot. That’s the relevant thing and everything. We just. I just took an E-course called the seven-day reset. And it’s kind of putting together a lot of the tools. I just talked about some nutrition stuff and qigong, and it’s just kind of all it’s meant to be done is like a seven-day thing. You just try it for a week and just see if you feel better.

Nick (00:49:37) Does this particular diet philosophy that I’m advocating in this particular movement and breath philosophy I’m advocating work for your particular system. I’m sure it doesn’t work for everybody, but you just give it a try for seven days. Most people are not going to kill you. And so if you feel better, then you might want to keep exploring that sort of philosophy. If not, you move on, but it’s only like 20 bucks. So that’s amazing. I think I gave it to you for the show. Note the link should be there.

Abby (00:50:01) Yeah, yeah. I’ll include all the links in the show notes. I’m so glad that you’re offering that because as someone who comes from very much like the deep spiritual abstract world, that’s my zone of genius. And I saw that you’re doing all this stuff like this is perfect, so I won’t go and do stuff that is going to help you tremendously and will help you with all kinds of other work.

Nick (00:50:18) To make an e-course in the future together, maybe one to two wings on that bird?

Abby (00:50:23) Yeah. That’ll be great as well. Thank you Nick to do what you’re doing and we’ll talk soon

Nick (00:50:31) Awesome. Thanks for having me. Yeah.


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On episode 16 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, we explore from an energetic perspective, what happens when we’ve had our boundaries violated. We also go on a guided journey of healing your boundaries so you can feel strong and secure within your own space.

This episode is for anyone who’s experienced a little “t” or big “T” trauma where they felt they didn’t have claim over their own space and body. It’s also anyone who sometimes gets overwhelmed by the energy of the people and places around them. The Boundaries journey will guide you through letting go of painful past experiences, healing and reinforcing your personal boundaries, and how to claim your space even in the most uncomfortable of situations.

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss, and today I’m going to guide you through a journey of feeling strong, impenetrable boundaries so as paths, as highly sensitive people. It’s very common to take on other people’s emotions, the energy around us, and that can get overwhelming, really quick.

Abby (00:00:27) So when we think about boundaries, the times when we want to kind of recoil into ourselves, when things feel overwhelming, if we’re in an uncomfortable setting or we’re in a large public space, I like to use the analogy of stepping into Costco and just wanting to shrink into a small creature because the energy can feel overwhelming.

Abby (00:00:51) But what we want to do is not draw into ourselves, because if you can imagine that becomes a kind of like a vortex that we pull energy into us and it can exacerbate that overwhelming feeling. What we want to do instead is expand our energy out, become very expansive. And in doing so, we push away other energy that we don’t want in our feelings like everybody else’s stuff, and we radiate light, bright energy of our own.

Abby (00:01:25 ) And it may initially feel counterintuitive to do that, to expand out when you’re in an uncomfortable situation, but it truly is quite helpful. So we work with feeling our energy expand and also filling ourselves up. So filling up from the energy of the Earth and the energy of the heavens above and calling light to ourselves and feeling ourselves become expansive.

Abby 00:01:53) So it’s a practice, and this meditation is going to gently guide you through this inner experience of connecting with the energy around you, with the energy of the Earth and expanding your energy out. And as you do this, you may notice that people respond to you differently when you are feeling radiant, radiant, and full of life.

Abby (00:02:19) And you also may notice yourself responding differently and not feeling the urge to recoil, but feeling strong within yourself, which is what boundaries are all about feeling strong within yourself. And most of us do not have great boundaries because of how we grew up. So as children, we can’t always get our way, and I often feel like we’re forced to do things that don’t feel right for us and that can feel like a violation of our boundaries.

Abby 00:02:53) So you could consider that a small T trauma like being forced to eat food when we’re not hungry or being forced to hug someone we don’t want to hug or being forced to leave an experience that we want to stay in. Not having that control of ourselves in our own body, we don’t have a lot of control when we’re young, and that feeling of powerlessness can stay with us as we get older. Until we let that feeling go from our energy, from our beliefs, and our nervous system.

Abby (00:03:31) So there’s also the big trauma, which is any kind of physical violation, sexual or otherwise. So if you’ve been beaten up as a child in school, if you were sexually violated in some way at each point of your life, that is a larger boundary violation. And when something like that happens to us, you can imagine it creates a crack in your boundary. So you imagine your boundaries like an energetic bubble around you.

Abby (00:04:02) That is your space. It’s like that bubble has gotten a crack in it, and the space that’s yours has become compromised. So your sense of boundaries and understanding other people’s boundaries can be challenging because your sense of me and you mine and there’s my space there, space has been violated. And so when that happens, we want to repair the crack in that boundary, why we want to release any energy that has gotten in there that doesn’t belong to you.

Abby (00:04:40) And in doing so, you will become stronger and better protected in your sense of self. So when someone else can sense that you have strong boundaries, they are much less likely to mess with you. And when others sense that you? Have strong boundaries, those with good intentions feel at ease around you, it helps them to remember their boundaries as you remember yours and ultimately helps you to feel more at home in your skin and your own space.

Abby (00:05:16) So boundaries is a big topic that we could do several episodes on. But what I want for you is to have this meditation that I’m going to walk you through that is going to set you up for success. That is a powerful practice and cleansing experience to release any energy in your bubble that does not belong there and to repair any cracks that have been made throughout your life. All right. So this journey incorporates hypnotherapy that helps you access a deeply relaxed state so you don’t want to do this while you’re driving.

Abby (00:05:59) You want to give yourself a space to just relax and sink into it for the most powerful and healing effects. So without further ado, just sit back, relax and enjoy the journey in creating your own strong, impenetrable boundaries. So I want you just to take some breaths now and come into this space and this moment in time. This is right here right now in your body at this moment. And then.

Abby (00:06:38) Opening your eyes and looking up as high as you can, just with your eyes and taking in a breath and letting it out good and breathing it again. And let it down. No more time breathing in. And this time on your exhale, keep your eyes up and lower your eyelids down. The good feeling that fluttering sensation in your eyelids so that you act as a very healing trance state and allowing your eyes to relax now and go into a comfortable position, healing the muscles around your eyes, growing soft and relaxed, feeling your eyelids are heavy and it’s just so comfortable to allow them to stay closed.

Abby: And with her looking down, feeling in your body, imagining that you’re looking down over a set of stairs and you can see 10 steps below you as I count you down, you’re going to see, feel, and hear your foot treading each step. And as you move on to step 10, you can feel all the muscles in your hand. Relax space between your eyebrows, soften and relax. You drift down two steps, nine and eight, you feel your shoulders turn loose and relax.

Abby (00:08:05) All the muscles in your arms, chest back in Valley, just turn loose and relax. And you go on any of seven and six feeling your hips, sinking deeper and relaxing. Moving on to step five, you’re halfway down feeling every muscle turned loose, let loose, looming on a for feeling your whole nervous system, relax and turn loose now. He drifts down two steps, three and two, just feeling yourself, allowing yourself to drift, float and move into a powerful healing awareness of yourself.

Abby (00:08:53) Moving on to step one and going 10 times deeper. 20 times deeper. A hundred times deeper, this drifts deeper. Flow deeper. Sink even further into a powerful healing awareness of yourself, and every sound that you hear brings you deeper. And the sound of my voice brings you deeper and deeper and deeper into a healing awareness of your soul. And see Sense feel some white or gold online pouring down from above and melting in the top of your head, melting into your brain and releasing anything your brain has holding that is not aligned with your truth, releasing any untrue thoughts, beliefs, or patterns and habits.

Abby (00:09:51) I think that like going into your pineal gland and your eyes, helping you to deeply perceive the truth of what is clearing away, any fog, any confusion, anything untrue or staticky. And feeling that light melting down into the ears and opening up, unblocking anything that had been held in the ears that did not belong. Moving on into the throat and just opening the throat and feeling that sense of easy and creative expression from your heart and your true self.

Abby (00:10:28) And feeling that late melting down into their shoulder is releasing anything their shoulders had been carrying the poorest down into the arms and the lungs, feeling yourself and breathing that light into your lungs, feeling it, melting into all your organs, your heart, your liver, your gallbladder, your stomach, your spleen, your kidneys, your small intestine, your large intestine. Yeah, good feeling that light melting down into your hips, melting down your legs, into your knees, and down into your ankles and feet.

Abby (00:11:12) I had a feeling some tree roots coming from you and going into the Earth and going deeper and deeper and plugging in with the core of Mother Earth now. Feeling that pulsing energy, that heartbeat of the Earth, feeling yourself, sinking out with that now. And feeling Mother Earth and some energy up your tree roots. Up your legs, he left filling up behind your belly button. Overflowing up into the center of your chest, your heart center, you feel that light radiating out into your whole body, filling your bones, your blood, your muscles, and connective tissues, and the lining of myofascial around your body, feeling your skin, hair, and nails.

Abby (00:12:05) I’m feeling the light radiate out three feet off your body, filling your whole emotional feeling releasing anything heavy or intense or stuck out of your emotional field now and feeling that light expanding out into your whole spiritual field. Six feet off the body. My feelings. Any thoughts, any unsupportive thoughts or energies external from you just releasing and melting away into that light now? Could be a lot like filling the whole room, you’re in a home building, you’re in. A whole city. The whole country. And the whole planet.

Abby (00:12:55) You’re feeling wrapped in a bubble of light, really supported and connected from above and below. And so. When you walk into a space or you’re in an environment that feels uncomfortable, the tendency can be to shrink the energy down, and really what’s needed is to expand your energy. And I want you just to practice feeling this now, feeling an energy coming up from the Earth, up to your legs and radiating out like a smile, shining off your chest and arms and face and head.

Abby (00:13:35) Just noticing you just imagining yourself in your mind’s eye, walking into a space where there’s a lot of people, a lot of energy and just feeling this energy coming up from the Earth, filling you and radiating out like a warm smile, imagining yourself, noticing your posture and your shoulders going back. Are you standing taller feeling perhaps a smile on your face? Just noticing yourself walking about the space with your energy radiating out like this, this feeling flows through you easily and lightly and just not as others respond to you differently now that your energy is so bright and expansive.

Abby (00:14:23) So. Yeah. Good, so allowing this now to be a habit, creating this habit every time you walk into a space or encounter in an environment where in the past you used to shrink, you now allow your energy to expand and outward feel your energy radiate. And fill the room, fill yourself, fill your whole body, your whole emotional, and your whole spiritual body with this bright light smile radiating out from you. Because indeed, doing this is a powerful, protective boundary as you radiate light and warmth out.

Abby (00:15:18) No energy can interfere with that. This indeed is protection. And ironically, it’s when you feel your energy that it doesn’t need to be protected as when you really, truly feel this expansiveness of feeling imagining yourself walking through this space with your head held up your shoulders back, feeling the lightness and the warmth of this, the confidence.

Abby (00:15:53) It’s allowing physiology to adapt to this move in this way, more and more each day to allow us to become natural for you as you do just practicing meaning throughout your day, moving through your walk, simply sitting where you are practicing this feeling more and more, allowing it to become more and more of your natural flow, your natural state each day and every time you listen to this recording, it reminds you and me tunes you into this and you listen to this recording often to create the habit of being in the flow, being upright, confident and bright.

Abby (00:16:41) And you do this. You listen to this recording more and more. You notice it becomes more and more a part of you. It’s healing this confidence, this lightness. You notice more and more differences in how those around you are responding to you as you show up with this powerful bright energy within you and moving through you, supporting you and protecting you. Just allowing yourself to be in the energy of power, of strength, of lightness, of a smile, knowing that this is who you truly are. The powerful being connected to all that is simply allowing yourself to find that alignment more and more each day.

Abby (00:17:35) And as you do, you will notice even greater and greater ease as you move through life and experience those around you reacting differently to thoughts and feelings that you convey while you’re in this vibrant, expansive, light state. Knowing that your energy, your thoughts, your emotions on the electromagnetic field, others around you can sense and feel the thoughts you think of yourself, of the thoughts that others will often think of you too. As you walk into spaces and around others reminding yourself that you are loved, you are love, that you are connected, deeply connected with the Earth and the heavens above, and with your own heart and truth.

Abby (00:18:32) And feeling that smile and expansiveness coming from you. Noticing more and more how beautiful their responses are when others witnessed this and you. And another layer of your boundaries is knowing your truth. So feeling in the very core of you now your wisdom, your integrity, his feeling that as a light expanding out from the very center of you like a white light, getting brighter and brighter, it’s the knowingness of simply a part of you allowing that knowingness to grow to illuminate you around that feeling compassion for yourself. Healing that compassion and love for yourself surrounding them, bright light, filling your whole body.

Abby (00:19:33)This is another layer of your boundary that radiates outright from you. Adding this layer naturally, easily knowing that connecting with the light supports this and this creates a connection with the light. Feeling your connection from heaven, from Earth, and your true self. You are having an experience of life. You are aware and you choose how you respond to life. Make a choice now if you wish to respond from this place, self-compassion of integrity, feeling deeply connected and supported by the universe where Mother Earth is.

Abby (00:20:32) By the heavens. Good. And this is allowing this light to penetrate the cells of your body and your whole being, your physical body, your emotional body, your spiritual body. Citing a blessing of light into your past and blessing of light into your future. Knowing that all is divinely guided and you are perfectly in the flow, really aligned with the core of who you are and as you align with this, moving through life is joyful, beautiful, playful. So allowing yourself to live in joy, beauty, and play.

Abby (00:21:26) It’s allowing for a powerful impression of these experiences and these true concepts to stay with you, to continue guiding you and nourishing you. And imagining now a bubble of light around, you know, a bubble of light is your boundaries feeling it? Six feet out from you are even further out. Bad thing, all of you. And imagine seeing if there’s anywhere that those boundaries have been cracked. This sends them filling with light. Now. Seeing them be impaired, seeing lines of light coming in and crossing over and just healing and repairing all of those cracks now with your strong, powerful force field, with your boundaries, knowing that you are a strong, powerful being.

Abby (00:22:26) I feel a sense of knowing where you and others begin. And claiming all of you. And taking radical ownership for all of you knowing that you are powerful, you choose your thoughts and actions and beliefs with awareness. And what others do is their responsibility. Look, you never know the true thoughts and reasons for others’ behavior. What you can do. He understands that what you do is your responsibility. Take radical ownership for yourself, knowing that you are powerful, free, and innocent.

Abby (00:23:20) And living with strong, impenetrable boundaries, feeling the force field around you filled with light, feeling it reinforced with lines of light horizontal and vertical crossing over each other. Feeling light, connecting you from above and from below and from your true self. You are a powerful force. You are free. You are filled with light and made of light. Feeling your profound connection with your true self and the alignment of the light that you are. Knowing that no one else can truly take from you. Nothing can be truly taken from you. Because you have sovereignty over yourself. And how you see your life.

Abby (00:24:27) And choosing the stories that are powering that are freeing to you. Knowing that you are worthy of happiness and joy and peace. Happiness and joy and peace come freely to you and you live in alignment with your true self. Now. And imagining a set of stairs in front of you now with five steps. As you place your foot on step five, you feel aligned, you feel in your truth, you feel free. Moving on to step four, feeling the powerful truth of these experiences and concepts within you, supporting you nourishing and reinforcing your strong, impenetrable boundaries.

Abby (00:25:18) I mean, honest up to feeling healed, feeling grounded, and deeply connected. Moving on or someone feeling fully in your body, feeling your fingertips and your toes, feeling here or feeling present, feeling free and good, taking in a deep, beautiful breath. And opening your eyes.

Abby (00:25:50) Thank you so much for listening, I hope you enjoyed this meditation, this guided journey on healing your boundaries, on having powerful, strong, impenetrable boundaries. I hope it brings you a lot of peace and healing wherever you may go next. And if you enjoyed this journey, I encourage you to subscribe and review Apple Podcasts. It helps to help other people find this healing work. And if you’d like to learn more about the work

Abby (00:26:25) I do and go deeper into your healing journey, you can find me on and learn about my mentorship programs at Their six-month journey of healing and awakening within a sacred group and community.

Abby (00:26:45) And if you have any requests for future episodes or feedback from this one, you can reach out to me on Facebook and Instagram @yourmindbodyfree. So thank you so much for listening. Sending you my love and talk soon.


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New Year Journey Pt. 2

New Year Journey Mind Body Free Podcast
New Year Journey Part 2 Abby Banner Photo

New Year Journey Pt 2

In episode 15: New Year Journey Pt 2, we move into part 2 of our New Year’s Eve series of saying farewell to 2021 and welcoming in 2022. In this episode, you will be guided through a Shamanic journey of releasing what you would like to let go of in 2021 and stepping into what you are creating in 2022. 

If you haven’t yet you can listen to Part 1 here.
 As you explore this visioning journey, I encourage you to approach it with a sense of play and discovery, as well as a pen and paper so you can answer the journaling prompt below after you’ve listened to the journey.

Journaling Exercise:

1. Listen to the guided Journey in Episode 15.

2. Journal what you have let go of in 2021. 

3. Journal what you are stepping into in 2022.

4. Have a magical New Year!

Connect with Abigail:
Facebook: @yourmindbodyfree
Instagram: @yourmindbodyfree
Schedule a free discovery call
Learn more about the Mentorship Program



Mind Body Free Podcast Love

Are you subscribed? If not, there’s a chance you could be missing out on some bonuses and extra show tools.  Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify to be sure you’re in the loop.  

Do you love the show? If so, I’d love it if you left me a review on iTunes. This helps others find the show and get integrative healing support. Simply click here and select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”. Thank you so much ❤︎



Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the mind body for your podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I am a healer, a coach, and a mentor. I help people to connect with their inner healers. Their passion and purpose and share their medicine with the world. And today it is episode 15 and this is part two of our New Year’s journey.

Abby (00:00:25) So if you haven’t yet done part one, which is episode 14, I recommend starting there because it’s going to make this next journey even more vivid and clear. We don’t have to do that one first, but it will help make this one even more powerful. So this journey that we’re going to go on today is all about moving into the ceremony of the rite of passage, of letting go of 2021 and stepping into 2022.

Abby (00:01:00) And with that, we let go of anything we don’t need to bring with us into this next year. And in doing that, we create space for what we want to welcome into 2022. So I hope you enjoy this journey. This is another live recording from one of my mentor classes. And again, you are going to want to have a pen and paper handy to do some journaling for the questions afterward. And I encourage you to give yourself some space to relax, to close your eyes, to sink into this because you’ll get the most from this journey that way. All right. So without further ado, here is our New Year’s journey.

Abby (00:01:44) So we’re doing our New Year’s letting go and calling in. We want to let go of 2021 and call in 2020 to journey. So let’s close our eyes and just imagine some light pouring down from above melting into you from the top of your head, down into your brain and eyes and ears, nose and throat.

Abby (00:02:09) Putting that light, fills all of your senses, and releases any blocks from seeing your divine path, you are inherently worth yours. You’re allowing that expression and confidence to flow through you and allowing that light to melt into your shoulders, your arms, and hands, relaxing everything that it touches and feeling and melting down into your lungs as you breathe it into your lungs.

Abby (00:02:42) I’m feeling a melting down into all your organs and your heart, your liver, your stomach and spleen, and your kidneys down through your intestines, melting into your hips and releasing any tension from your hips, feeling that light melting down like a warm smile into your legs, melting into your knees, going down your lower legs and into your ankles and your feet, and just feeling every part of you relaxed. Just letting go of any tension, any worry, any stress, any heaviness releasing that into the light.

Abby (00:03:22) Feeling like getting some tree roots coming from you and going into the Earth and going deeper and deeper and plugging in with a core of Mother Earth and feeling a pulsing life force, hearing the heartbeat of the Earth, feeling yourself sinking up with that now. And sending some gratitude to Mother Earth and feeling her sending some energy up your tree, roots up your legs, filling up behind your belly button. And overflowing up into your heart center and radiating out, filling your whole body, the whole room, you’re in, the whole building you’re in.

Abby (00:04:19) The whole city, the whole country, and the whole planet. Feeling yourself fully connected and supported from above and below and wrapped in a bubble of life. Good and bringing your awareness back into your hard center, now dropping into this space and feeling that pulsing life force there. And feeling yourself expand out every breath that you take as you inhale, feeling your heart center expand, and as you exhale, feel it coming back in, it’s moving with your breath. Good, don’t know you next inhale, leave the energy in your hearts under expanded out as you continue to breathe naturally.

Abby (00:05:15) Right, and we’re going to be moving into your timeline, we’re going to go into space where it’s light and time and work with this dimension. I want you to imagine now that an energy current is coming to pick you up and lift you. So you are just kind of there in front of you now and you can show a powerful home. It works while it can be a cloud of magic carpet or car or plane helicopter. I’m just imagining that you’re stepping on to that energy of current and it’s bringing you up into the sky above the Earth. Into a good web of light.

Abby (00:05:57) And as you look down, you can see the timeline for your life buried on Earth and imagine yourself now just standing on that timeline in your present day. And as you stand on that, it’s like standing in a line of light. And as you look behind you, you see the past as you look ahead of you, you see the future. And a little bit ahead of you, not too far, you see a line of light kind of a marker point in that line of light, says 20. Twenty-two. And I want you to think now of things you’d like to leave behind to let go of.

Abby (00:06:50 )Do not bring with you into 2020 to think of all of the things that you’d like to let go of as you move into this next year. This next part of your life? And I want you to look behind you and see all those things there that you like to let go of that can be recent or very far back in your timeline. Doesn’t matter. I just see them there now knowing that I can’t harm you. They’re just there in your awareness. And I want you to imagine now.

Abby (00:07:32 )There’s a bubble of light here and inside that bubble of light has an irresistible magnetic pull, all of that which you like to release before you move into the new year and just gently with a smile. I put all those old ways, old habits, patterns, and energies into that light to be transformed in that bubble of light. So everywhere that you felt that you resisted bringing a vision into reality, but that goes into that bubble where it feels scary to put yourself out there and make connections and miss all of that everywhere.

Abby (00:08:17) You had to figure it all out before it can happen or it’s all going to explode. Put all of that and that bubble of light. All negative self-talk and self-judgment are depreciation. Take all of that and allow the bubble of light to put in a release from you and create the lead in this story, all cords attached to any of that self-talk. Good. So whenever it feels like you’re not making progress, when a small setback happens, everything is put into that bubble of light. And create and delete any attachments and destroy any attachments to that.

Abby (00:09:04) You can see the depth and. And the power of the progress that you’ve made and feel that within, you know, that to be true, all regret, rigidity, complacency, and worry allow that to go into that bubble of light. Everything that kept you small put that in the rubble. Everything that holds you back releases that into that bubble. Everything that made you feel afraid, release all of that. Everything that made you feel unworthy, release all of that. I mean, the thing that said, you’re not enough and create in this story, all of that and you release it into the bubble of life.

Abby (00:09:56) I want you to imagine if there’s any other kind of orbs of light or of energetic frequencies that you sense and feel it’s not meant to come with you. That feels heavy and something to go where you’re going. Release all of that into that ball of light. And I want you to look at that bubble of light and just say thank you, thank you for all the ways that you’ve served me. Thank you for all the ways that you’ve helped me come to this moment in time now. Thank you for having me cope when I needed help coping. Thank you. Thank you for helping me to adapt when I needed help adapting.

Abby (00:10:44) And I want you to take a moment and decide right now if you would truly like to let this go and make space for what you’re bringing in in 2020. And feeling that inside of you and your heart feeling that, well, the power of actually truly deciding to let it go. And let the power of that decision break any cords or attach to that bubble. And imagine the sky of white above us, and we’re just starting to bubble into the light, seeing it moving on and. Merging with a light in five four three two one. Feeling raindrops of light, pouring down onto you onto your past and your future.

Abby (00:11:52) Blessing you and every part of you with the wisdom and healing from this experience. I want you to look forward to it now. Just beyond that line, that marker point of 2020, do you feel the energies of what you’re calling into this next chapter of your life? I want you to imagine stepping forward just before that line, before that threshold point. And looking into all those things that you’re bringing in, feeling all the energy of it, allowing it to grow and expand. Feeling yourself moving forward, ever so gently. I want you to before you step across that line to the side again in your heart. If you’d like to allow this, and if you truly would like to allow us to welcome this into your life and yourself.

Abby (00:13:02) Knowing that you are worthy and deserving of whatever your heart desires to create. I’m feeling now with that decision. And creating, deleting, and storing all fears. Feeling now with your decision. Because you feel it in your heart, I want you to step across that line into the threshold of 20 22. Just being in this energy of what you’re creating in your life. And one more time scene, the most vivid and vital and powerful scene for you to see now of this life that you’re creating of what you’re calling in and 2022 and being there in five four three two one.

Abby (00:14:06) And as you’re there now, are you inside or outside? Are you alone or is anyone with you? And if others are there, who’s there? It’s daytime or nighttime. What are you doing at this moment? What’s happening around you? And how are you engaging, if others are there, how are you engaging with them? And how are you feeling at this moment? And what are you grateful for? And if there’s one thing you’d like yourself to know. You like your parcel to know about how you created this, what would you like to know? OK. And

Abby (00:15:37) I think a symbol to appear in front of you, a symbol that is a powerful symbol for you, that will help you in creating this and bringing this into your life as an anchor for all of these energies that you’re calling into 20 22. And seeing that symbol in front of you now and welcoming it into your heart. Good and allowing this memory, this moment is feeling to stay with you, meaning you can’t remain in you and continue guiding you forward and your deeply fulfilling life.

Abby (00:16:20) Moving back to the present day, here you are before said before not quite yet in 2020 to feel the lightness in your timeline, the shift fueling the excitement of all that’s coming ahead and just allowing that current of energy to take you back to your body. Back to this moment in time on Earth and being there in five four three two one feeling fully present and alive in your body, you’re feeling well and relaxed and home imagining a set of stairs with five steps as you go on two steps five and four feeling light, feeling clear and easily recalling the details of this journey to on step three and two.

Abby (00:17:14) Feeling present, feeling calm and relaxed in your body. So the onus of one. And if you’re listening to this recording at night, just a moment and turning it off and having a deep, restful sleep that will take you all the way through till morning. And if you’re listening to this recording the day feels as if you just had a fantastic night’s sleep coming into full awareness, taking some deep breaths, feeling energy is circulating up your back and down your front through the microcosmic orbit.

Abby (00:17:49) Feeling your tree roots anchored into the Earth and feeling the energy circulating through your tree roots up your back and down your front. And clap your hands and have them create heat. When you feel that heat in the palm of your hands, cupping your hands over your eyes, bring the heat in through your eyes and down to your belly three times. I’m washing your face, head, neck, and shoulders and down your body.

Abby (00:18:30) All right. Thank you for going on that journey. I hope you enjoyed your ceremonial rite of passage from 2021 and 2022. All right. So now is a great time to grab a pen and some paper and do some journaling. From what you discovered in your journey, you can do a stream of consciousness churning, journeying about things that stood out to you, and just let that flow, which can be a great way of bringing the subconscious into your conscious awareness. And from there, I would then make two lists of everything that you’ve let go of that you’re leaving behind and releasing from 2021 and all that you’re stepping into in 2022 into this next chapter of your life.

Abby (00:19:21) So thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions, reach out. And if you’re curious about the mentor classes that these recordings are from a run for six months, we connect each week with really intimate class size, and together we heal, connect with our inner wisdom and purpose and share our medicine with the world. So if that sounds like something that is calling to you, you can learn more at Registration for this class closes on January 13th.

Abby (00:19:57) So if you’re feeling cold, don’t hesitate to schedule a free discovery call and see if this is right for you. All right. Thank you so much. I’m Abigail Moss. You can reach me on Instagram and Facebook @yourmindbodyfree as well as And if you love this journey, I encourage you to share it around with anyone else you think may benefit from it. And if you like and subscribe and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts, that helps more people to find this kind of work. So thank you so much. Wishing you a beautiful, phenomenal, expansive 2022, and talk soon.


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New Year Journey Pt. 1

New Year Journey Part 1 Abby Banner Photo

New Year Journey Pt. 1

As we say farewell to 2021 and welcome 2022, this is an opportunity to become intentional with what we want to create in this next chapter of our lives. This journey will guide you into a future vision of a day in your ideal life.

As you explore this visioning journey, I encourage you to let go of any thoughts that say you can’t dream this big and approach it with a sense of play and discovery, as well as a pen and paper so you can answer the journaling prompts below after you’ve listened to the journey.

Journaling Exercise:

1. Listen to the Visioning Journey in Episode 14.

2. Journal what you discover in your ideal day from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed.

3. Create a list of the changes you would need to make to create space for this life.

4. Create two more lists:
– Everything you’re letting go of in 2021
– Everything you’re welcoming into your life in 2022

5. When you’re ready, go to Part 2 here.

Connect with Abigail:
Facebook: @yourmindbodyfree
Instagram: @yourmindbodyfree
Schedule a free discovery call
Learn more about the Mentorship Program



Mind Body Free Podcast Love 


Are you subscribed? If not, there’s a chance you could be missing out on some bonuses and extra show tools.  Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify to be sure you’re in the loop.  

Do you love the show? If so, I’d love it if you left me a review on iTunes. This helps others find the show and get integrative healing support. Simply click here and select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”. Thank you so much ❤︎



Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss. I am a healer, a teacher, and a mentor. I help people let go of past traumas, connect with their inner wisdom and purpose, and share their gifts with the world.

Abby (00:00:19) So we have a very special two episodes coming up. So I decided to break it down into two parts, part one and part two. We have a couple of journeys. We’re going to go on and today we’re going to go on a journey that is all about envisioning what you want to see in your ideal life as we move into 2022 and we say farewell to 2021. So we want to know what it is we’re calling in what it is we want to create in our life. And as we allow ourselves to go into our heart space to quiet the conscious thinking mind, because that’s where a lot of limitations will show up if you’re not allowed to dream that big. Oh, you can’t do this because of this, this and this, or you can’t have that because that change is too scary. So all of these things can pop up in our conscious mind.

Abby (00:01:12) But as we go deeper into the subconscious mind, connecting in with the heart, this is where your true desires are. And as you allow yourself to open up to receive a vision of a future in an ideal way for you, you might just be surprised with what you find there.

Abby 900:01:32) So this is all about giving yourself permission and listening to this journey with a sense of play and curiosity and discovery, knowing that it doesn’t need to mean any one thing right now, you don’t need to go and make any massive changes right away.

Abby (00:01:47) We’re just opening up to see a destination that your heart and your soul want you to see. And from there it is your choice and how you choose to move towards this life. So I’m going to be guiding you through a journey today of envisioning a day in your ideal life from the moment that you wake up to the moment that you go to bed.

Abby (00:02:13) And when I’ve done these kinds of exercises before, I’m often very surprised with what I find. It’s often things I didn’t expect, and it later made sense, and it later moved me towards what I wanted. And even if it seems impossible or unrealistic, well, for one know that everything and anything is possible, we live in a world full of possibility.

Abby (00:02:35) The only limitations are the beliefs that we impose on ourselves and to. If you allow yourself to dream big, even if you get another version or create another version of what you imagined, even if you manifest half of what you imagine in your life, that can still be amazing and way more than you would have created if you would never let yourself dream in the first place.

Abby (00:03:02) Let yourself dream, my dear. This is what this is all about. We’re opening up to new worlds of possibility, and in doing so, we begin creating them. So I’m going to guide you through a 20-minute journey today, and this journey will be most powerful when you give yourself the space to just relax, to close your eyes, to sink deeper and deeper into it.

Abby (00:03:24)And after that, there are some journaling questions, and I do encourage you to go to the episode page on And this is Episode fourteen where we have the breakdown of the journey and we have the journaling prompts. Then I encourage you to check that out because you’re going to get the most from being able to see those and refer back to them.

Abby (00:03:51) And I do encourage you to journal after this journey. So have your pen and paper ready because you’re going to get some really powerful and profound insights and it’s going to help you to process and integrate them consciously. So when we make the subconscious or the unconscious conscious, incredible things begin to happen.

Abby (00:04:18) So as you journal them, you’re bringing it from your subconscious into your conscious awareness and creating a bridge between your conscious and unconscious mind. So I encourage you to relax, to let yourself play, to let yourself imagine. Don’t worry about any limitations.

Abby (00:04:36) They do not apply to you. Any fears, anywhere your mind doesn’t want to permit you to dream this big. Just put all of that on a shelf and just let yourself see what you find. So without further ado, here is an exercise guiding you through a day in your ideal life is a live recording from one of my recent mentor classes.

Abby (00:05:00) So as you tune in, just imagine that you’re connecting with the energy of the whole group and everyone participating in this journey. And it will elevate your experience even more. All right. Happy travels.

Abby (00:05:18) So let’s close our eyes and just imagining some light pouring into you from above melting into your head and your eyes, and your third eye-melting into your brain, nose, ears, and throat, and just nourishing, healing, and cleansing away any stuck heavy or stagnant energy just allow that to release into the light.

Abby (00:05:45) And allowing that light to melt down into your shoulders and your arms and hands and just feeling it, relaxes every muscle and every part of you that it touches. Feeling that light melting down into your lungs as you breathe it and feeling the light going down into your belly, into all your organs, your heart, your liver, your stomach, and spleen, into your kidneys and down into the small and large intestines cleansing away any stuck energy in your gut.

Abby (00:06:21) And he trapped emotions or toxins, feeling that all being released into the light and feeling that light melting down into your hips and releasing any tension that had been held here and melting down your legs and into your knees and melting down your calves and shins and into your ankles and feet.

Abby (00:06:50) And feeling that light owning some tree roots coming from you and going into the Earth and going deeper and deeper and plugging in with a core of Mother Earth feeling that connection with the Earth, the pulsing energy, that heartbeat of the Earth that you’re linking up with now.

Abby (00:07:18) And feeling Mother Earth, sending some love and some energy up your tree, roots of your legs, filling up behind your belly button and overflowing up into the center of your chest in your heart center and radiating out filling your whole physical body. Extending three feet out, filling your whole emotional body.

Abby (00:07:48) And extending six feet out, filling your whole spiritual body, feeling that light, filling the whole room, you’re in the whole building, the whole city. The whole country and the whole planet. Feeling yourself fully connected and supported from above and below and wrapped in a bubble of light.

Abby (00:08:21) And in writing our guides, guardian angels, and beings of light to work with us, to support us, and seeing the most joyful, fulfilling, liberating day that we can see at this time. And coming back into your heart center, bringing your awareness into the space, just feeling yourself filled with light can in just a moment we’re going to move forward in time and take a glimpse into a day in your ideal life, into a life that feels deeply fulfilling, connected, loving, joyful for you.

Abby (00:09:05) I’m going to be moving forward, taking us in a moment. We’re going to be going from the moment you wake up until the moment that you go to bed, just imagining now that you’re going to be in that place where you’re waking up, drifting deeper and deeper and down now. And five, four, three two one. This makes you feel as if you were lying in bed.

Abby (00:09:4)1 And you feel the sun rising in the room that you’re in. And in just a moment, and you’re going to open your eyes and sense and feel and experience yourself here, you wake up on this day and you’re deeply fulfilled by opening your eyes and five and within the dream. Give me your actual eyes closed and look out into the room in five four three two one.

Abby (:10:15) Hi, imagine you’re here opening your eyes in this room. As you look around, what do you notice where the light streaming in from what your bed feels like? So the room you have now, or is it different? What does this room look like? What color is it? And is anyone in this bed next to you or is it all to yourself?

Abby (00:10:57) As you get out of bed and place your feet on the floor, just notice how the floor feels beneath your feet as it would as a carpet warm or cold to the touch. Moving into the next room and you go into the bathroom and see what it looks like here, going about your morning ritual.

Abby (00:11:27) And you’re ready, going downstairs, going into the kitchen and just noticing what’s happening around you as you’re here in the kitchen, noticing because of anyone else here? Laurie, do you make breakfast tea or coffee water? Do you journal? How do you like to start your day? Is it with movement? With a pen and paper or simply a quiet space.

Abby (00:12:08) No one should allow this to take you to happen next in your day to you. Where do you go next to do more movement? Do you leave the house? Do you stay here? You go to work. Are you seeing? Are you seeing anyone? Friends, family. Where do you go next? After your morning ritual?

Abby (00:12:40) I’m looking out around the house taking in how your house feels and looks and taking in the space around it, what is the terrain like? Are you near an ocean? You and a lot of lands. What does it look and feel like geographically where you are? Letting that feeling end and taking you through to midday now, what are you doing now, are you seeing clients? Are you creating? I’m visiting with others or taking time for yourself?

Abby (00:13:24) Abby: What’s happening now around midday? Around lunchtime? If you’re having lunch, are you eating with other people? Did you make it or did somebody else make it? What kind of food are you having? It feels good in your body. Moving through the afternoon, what happens next after lunch, do you see people, do you move your body?

Abby (00:14:11) Are you creating you taking time for yourself to see what is happening now? If you’re seeing people working with others, what kind of work are you doing? And what kind of people are you doing it for? You’ve seen them one on one or in the group. And with children or adults, men or women, or a mix of the above.

Abby (00:14:53) If you’re creating, how do you create do you like to write? Do you create visually? Do you perform? And moving forward now into the evening, around dinnertime and for dinner, are you eating alone or with others? Did you make this meal or did someone else make it? Where are you eating?

Abby (00:15:26) Abby: Is it in your home or another space? What does it feel like to be here having this meal, having this dinner, being in space? What are you grateful for at this time in your life on this day? And moving forward into the evening, what activities do you do after dinner?

Abby (00:16:10) And you lay to rest and reflect on your day. At a time when you like to create. I connect with others. Take space for yourself. Moving forward now, preparing to go to bed. The Sun’s gone down, it’s dark now. You do it before bed as you get ready for bed.

Abby (00:16:49) And as you go into bed and lay your head on the pillow and reflect on your day, how do you feel? But your day and about your life. Who are you grateful for? What brought you, Joy, on this day? What are you excited about for the next day? And closing your eyes and allowing yourself to slip through the dream of this day back into your present-day self and five four three two one just remembering clearly and easily recalling the details of this day within your conscious and subconscious mind, being able to recall and express what you experienced here.

Abby (00:17:53) Can you imagine now a set of stairs in front of you with five steps as you go on to step five? Feeling inspired and feeling queer, feeling connected to your whole self? Go on to step four feeling calm, confident, and clear on step three. Feeling more present and aware.

Abby (00:18:14) Fully hearing your body and the present moment. I’m being honest, I have to feel light and renewed because if you just had a fantastic night’s sleep moving on to step one and bringing this awareness, there are memories, there’s a visioning with you and two right here and now feeling fully alive and well in your body and taking some deep breaths and clapping your hands and rubbing them to create heat. And when you feel that heat is in the palms of your hands, place your hands over your eyes.

Abby (00:18:53) Feeling that heat in through your hand and through your eyes and down to your belly three times. And washing your face and your head and neck and shoulders and down your body.

Abby (00:19:21) All right. I hope you enjoyed that journey. I hope you permitted yourself to imagine an invasion and dream about what could be in your life. And some journaling now. So I encourage you to grab a pen and paper and journal what you found on your ideal day and then pause this recording as you journal. And when you’re ready, there’s one more question to answer in your notebook, right?

Abby (00:19:59) OK. So I hope that you have paused this, that you have written down what you found in your and your day in your ideal life, and if you haven’t, if you’re cheating, I encourage you to go back and write it down because this next question won’t make sense until you do so. The next prompt for you in the journal is to create a list of what would need to change in your life to make space for this vision.

Abby (00:20:31) What would need to change in your life to create space for this vision of this day in your ideal life? And I want you to write down, write down a list of everything you think of. Just let it be a stream of consciousness from as big or as little as you like. Just keep on writing and see what you find.

Abby (00:20:54) And that is our last exercise for part one and part two will be available shortly. Part two will be episode 15, where we go through a ceremony of letting go of what we are leaving behind in 2021 and stepping into what we are creating in 2022.

Abby (00:21:16) So thank you so much for listening, for connecting with your heart, and permitting yourself to dream big about what you like to experience, what you’d like to create in this beautiful life that is yours. So I’m Abigail Moss. This has been the Mind Body Free podcast.

Abby (00:21:36) Thank you so much for listening, for being a part of this journey. If you want help creating this life, then you can learn more about the mentorship program that I run. The registration closes soon and on January 13th. And this is a six-month journey where we connect each week and we learn how to heal, connect with our inner wisdom, purpose, and vision, and begin creating a life that feels deeply fulfilling for you. So you can learn more about that and me mind and you can find me on Instagram and Facebook @yourmindbodyfree, OK, my dear, until next time.


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Holiday Message for My Guides

13 Holiday Message
13 Holiday Guide Banner

Holiday Message From My Guides

In episode 12 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, I talk about what it means to be a highly sensitive person and how to navigate being an HSP in today’s world. Highly sensitive people represent about 20% of the population, and they’re wired differently. These creatives and empaths take more information into their nervous systems, which brings its own unique set of gifts and challenges.

Connect with Abigail:
Instagram @yourmindbodyfree
Facebook @yourmindbodyfree
Mentorship Program



Mind Body Free Podcast Love

Are you subscribed? If not, there’s a chance you could be missing out on some bonuses and extra show tools.  Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify to be sure you’re in the loop.  

Do you love the show? If so, I’d love it if you left me a review on iTunes. This helps others find the show and get integrative healing support. Simply click here and select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”. Thank you so much ❤︎

Looking for more support?
Schedule a free discovery call here
Learn more about my 6-month Mentorship Program here.



Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I am a healer, a mentor, and a guide. I help people to heal themselves, to connect with their passion and their purpose, and do what lights them up in the world.

Abby (00:00:20) And as we move into this holiday season and the new year, it’s a time of change and there can be a time of reflection, time of letting go of the past and welcoming of the new, and it’s kind of a process of making space. So we go through a process of letting go and deciding what we want to leave behind us.

Abby (00:00:45) And in this year, in 2021 and what we want to bring in in our next year ahead in 2022. And as we let go of what we no longer need, we then have the space to welcome what we truly want. And I thought it would be kind of nice to also let my guides speak today to share some messages from them.

Abby (00:01:13) Often when I work in my mentor classes, I often allow wisdom to come from my guides, and every time I’m not sure of something or any time, I feel like there could be a better answer. I’ll ask my guides. And sure enough, they have some beautiful wisdom to share each time. I also like to let them speak during times of rites of passage and ceremony.

Abby (00:01:37) And I feel like as we move into this new year, it is both a rite of passage and a ceremony. It is like a marker point where we cross over this line and into a new year. It gives us the space to reflect together and on our own, about our lives, about what we enjoyed from the last year and what we didn’t enjoy, what we want to create more of going forward.

Abby (00:02:09) And these moments, these times of reflection, are such a powerful gift in our lives. They give us the space to breathe and to consider more deeply who we are and what we want as experiences of our lives to be. So as I share from my guides, I find for me it’s easier to let them just kind of speak through me. And so you might hear a slightly different cadence or tone as they speak.

Abby (00:02:40) And that’s just them. And as I share, as I channel, it is really enjoyable for me to connect in and feel their energy because they have such a beautiful, loving, and wise presence, and it’s almost healing for me to let them kind of flow through me with that energy flow.

Abby (00:03:04) So channeling something that I also teach in my mentor classes, and if this is something that you have never done before but are curious to do, then reach out to me, I’d be happy to help you and guide you in different directions of what you can learn more about and get started.

Abby (00:03:22) All right, so I’m just going to tune in for a moment, and then I’m going to let them share the messages that they have for you, for everybody listening at this time. And please, as always, just take what resonates with you and leave the rest. You know, we all may need to hear slightly different things, and what feels aligned and what resonates for you is likely the message for you.

Abby (00:03:49) Oh. Welcome, thank you, and you for this opportunity to share and express our gratitude to you, to all those on planet Earth. You are doing such profound work here and it may not be something you regularly feel or realize, but the depth and beauty of that which you do at this time on planet Earth.

Abby (00:04:25) It is infinite and we are deeply appreciative to all of you. And we wish you to know that if you have been struggling or feeling weighed down by the burdens of the frequencies on this planet at this time. Who wished to remind you that you are indeed a beacon of hope, you are a light blazing through this world. And well, there may be times where it feels tumultuous or overwhelming, or even you could say too much.

Abby (00:05:08) Please know that you are a deeply, deeply powerful being that you are so very loved. And if you don’t see that love around, you know that it is there and it comes in. Many forms know that we have consciousness within the universe we love. You know that life itself is a part of you that is in connection through love. And as we approach this time of year, it is indeed a celebration of the love of coming together with those we love.

Abby (00:05:51) And so as you come together, allow love to be your guide, allow it to live within you. And we understand that it may at times be a challenge for that which you have been through throughout your many lifetimes. And as you come together, you realize that at the essence at the heart of you and those around you indeed love the stories, the pain, the frustrations, the sense of loss.

Abby (00:06:28) Those don’t define us. They can cloud the connection at times. But the essence of love, the desire to connect is inherent within all of us for it. In many ways, we are already all connected. We are all part of the fabric of life, of energy and consciousness, and through our experiences, through our experiences on Earth, the connection that can feel broken, muffled, confused, or even lost. But please know that it never truly is, and it can always be restored.

Abby (00:07:19) So as you come into this time of the gathering, a reunion, let it be a time of celebration of putting aside the differences that seem to cloud love and being present within yourself, within your homes, and with each other. And as you approach the new year, you know that any moment you have the power to change simply by the decisions that you make in your life, everything that you do, you decide upon.

Abby (00:08:05) And this decision is within you. You are never trapped by a previous decision or simply making new ones in every moment, and it is never fixed in stone, as it may seem at times. So we encourage you to decide as you transition into a new year, which you would like to leave behind you and create space for what you would like to welcome into the next chapter of your life here on Earth.

Abby (00:08:46) And we also wish to express to you how deeply sacred we feel that life on Earth is as a very, very special and powerful place to be at this time in existence. Many changes are happening about the planet within each of you and as you come into a deeper and deeper awareness of yourself and your place within life.

Abby (00:09:22) Those changes are happening within you, around you, and indeed from you, from the decisions that you make to move towards what you want to create and away from that which no longer serves you. So do indeed remember that you always have a choice and a choice to create what you want in your life is within you.

Abby (00:09:53) And to indeed know that you are not alone. There are many here to support you. You have many allies and many forms, and they’re here to guide you through these times of deep and powerful transition. And as we also stand by here, we are here as a way to support you as well. And we offer our caring, our love, our energy. We witness you and all that you are in the depths of who you are infinite, indescribable.

Abby (00:10:41) And we thank you for being here on Earth. In these times of great change. Know that there are many, many beings and many, many farms here appreciative of what you were doing by being here at this time. Thank you for listening. We wish you a beautiful, beautiful, joyous holiday together of connection and love and a wonderful new year and the next chapter of your time on Earth.

Abby (00:11:21) Thank you. Well, thank you for listening. I’m Abigail Moss, and this is a message from my guides on the Mind Body Free podcast. I do hope that you all have a beautiful time together wherever you are and if together means with yourself, and that’s beautiful.

Abby (00:11:51) And if it means with a huge bunch of people, that’s beautiful too. Whatever the setting is, I hope that you kind of space to breathe, to come into your heart and allow your thoughts, your mind to breathe and melt into the center of your chest and your heart center and be with yourself with those you love from this space.

Abby (00:12:23) And if you have any questions or feedback or any questions for my guides for a future episode, please reach out to me. You can message me on Facebook and Instagram. You are mind body free and you can contact me at Mind-Body Free dot com. Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you all have a beautiful and joyous new year. Take care!


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Thriving as a Highly Sensitive Person

12 THSP Abby light
17 THSP Banner Abby light

Thriving as a Highly Sensitive Person

On episode 12 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, I talk about what it means to be a highly sensitive person and how to navigate being an HSP in today’s world. Highly sensitive people represent about 20% of the population, and they’re wired differently. These creatives and empaths take more information into their nervous systems, which brings its own unique set of gifts and challenges.

Connect with Abigail:
Instagram @yourmindbodyfree
Facebook @yourmindbodyfree
Mentorship Program



Mind Body Free Podcast Love

Are you subscribed? If not, there’s a chance you could be missing out on some bonuses and extra show tools.  Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify to be sure you’re in the loop.  

Do you love the show? If so, I’d love it if you left me a review on iTunes. This helps others find the show and get integrative healing support. Simply click here and select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”. Thank you so much ❤︎

Looking for more support?
Schedule a free discovery call here
Learn more about my 6-month Mentorship Program here.



Full Show Transcript

 Abby (00:00:00) Hello, and welcome to the mind body free podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss. I help people heal, connect with their purpose and share their gifts with the world. And I want to talk to you today about how to thrive as a highly sensitive person. What is a highly sensitive person and how is that a gift, even though it may not always feel?

Abby (00:00:24) I’m going to walk you through how do you recognize if you are a highly sensitive person and the tools and challenges that we often face as an HSP and how to work with these challenges and as well, the gifts that come from being a highly sensitive person? So if you’re ready, relax, and enjoy. Here we go.

Abby (00:00:52) All right. So highly sensitive person is the term coined in the therapy world. And it represents about 20% of the population. And if you’re an HSP, you process things differently through your nervous system than most people. You take in more stimuli, and you may need more time to process things and work through things.

Abby (00:01:17) And the reason for that is because you’re taking more in. So we’re more inclined to feel overwhelmed. We’re more inclined to feel what other people or even the collective are feeling. So people who are in paths would also be considered highly sensitive people. They’re often very intuitive. They’re often very creative and they feel a lot and they feel deeply.

Abby (00:01:46) And I kind of see that as we’re taking more in and we’re taking it to a very deeper place. So while on the outside, it may seem like we’re moving at a gradual pace, actually doing a lot of inner work. And as we go through that and come out, the other side of it, we’ve come through such a place of depth that.

Abby (00:02:10) The transformation on the other side of when we bring forward what we’ve learned is even more powerful because of that. So what are the challenges? Let’s go over them? So highly sensitive people feel a lot. They feel deeply they’re prone to feeling overwhelmed by all of the difficult energies and ways of being, and thoughts and systems in the world.

Abby (00:02:37) They are intuitive and creative and they struggle in a rigid environment. So classroom environments and traditional school systems can be quite difficult. And so can the typical nine to five job in an office, it can feel very stifling to their creativity and their natural intuition. And so people who are highly sensitive do very well in a kind of forging their path and places where they’re able to fall into that creative flow and let that guide them.

Abby (00:03:13) Another thing that is important for highly sensitive people is to give yourself the space to release what you’ve taken into your nervous system. Because we do take in more. We do tend to feel more. Then it makes it even more crucial to have a personal practice than letting that go.

Abby (00:03:36) So highly sensitive people. We’re traditionally the people within the tribe who were the healers and the guides, and they often spend a lot of time alone. They would spend time in solitude to connect with themselves, with their envisioning, with the wisdom and insights that they wanted to come through and having, given themselves that space to connect in that way, they would then come back and share that wisdom and insight with the tribe.

Abby (00:04:04) And so they brought a lot of guidance and healing and that. But they were also given the space to do so and being a highly sensitive person and not having a space to do so can lead to intense overwhelm anxiety, eventually depression, because we’re often introverts. And we often recharge through having that time with ourselves or having that time in nature, having that time without stimuli coming at us to just be.

Abby (00:04:35) And to breathe and to release that stuff out of our system. So things like meditation, yoga, Xi, gong, uh, even journaling can be very, very helpful for highly sensitive people. Because if you imagine we’re going through the world, we’re going through the day and everyone we’re around and all the media that we see and experience and take in and all the high places.

Abby (00:05:01) Traffic. There’s going to be all kinds of energy there. And as we’re around that, we’re breathing it into our nervous system and our nervous system can become overwhelmed by all of that. So having the time and the space and the practice and the tools to release that from your system is so crucial for your overall sense of day-to-day well-being.

Abby (00:05:26)And I know that we are in. World and we’d have many lives where it doesn’t feel like there’s any space for that. But we can always create that space for ourselves. There’s always a way everything can be figured out. It’s never impossible. Just a matter of beginning to take that stand and realize what you need and that you are deserving of giving that to yourself.

Abby (00:05:50) And in giving that to yourself, you’re able to show up for your community, your loved ones in an even more powerful way and even more connected. Way and you also deserve to feel good. We all do. You deserve to be happy and you were just as deserving of that as anybody else. And you being an advocate for yourself is so, so crucial.

Abby (00:06:15) As you advocate for yourself, you saw an example of the value and worth and the self-love that you’ve given to you, and that helps others to see and give that to themselves. So. What can feel like a burden, feeling so much, feeling so deeply, getting overwhelmed with all of that? It can also be a profound gift because those who are highly sensitive have the innate ability to tap into it.

Abby (00:06:46) To go deep and tap into a world that’s more subtle and often overlooked. And in the subtle world is where a lot of the magic happens. So really creative artists are how to tap into that flow of creativity. And I kept something that comes from within them and around them. It’s a part of being in.

Abby (00:07:09) And as we connect with a part of ourselves, we access a certain kind of flow that comes from your inner wisdom urinating gifts. So when you learn how to navigate these terrains, you can use that ability and that intention to create profound healing for yourself to support others in incredible healing and transformation, as well as connect with yours.

Abby (00:07:37) Inner vision and heart and discover what is deeply fulfilling for you. What is deeply meaningful and ways that you can come into the world and bring your gifts into this world. So being sensitive enables you to tap into this more easily. You have an innate ability to access. Parts of yourself that have profound wisdom and insight and guidance and creativity and beauty to share with the world.

Abby (00:08:11) And we just haven’t had a lot of understanding of how to navigate that and our T in today’s world and or even what that is, what that means. So, you know, we live in a go, go, go world, and a lot is happening and a lot going on. And if you feel like you’re a highly sensitive person, if you get overwhelmed by that frequently, and it’s time to start giving yourself the space and the grace and the compassion to let that go to release the triggers that create those feelings and tune in with your inner guide, your inner wisdom.

Abby (00:08:52) And creativity because you have so many incredible gifts to share with the world. It’s simply a matter of learning how to work with. Your system with your mind, with your nervous system, with these innate gifts that are inside of you. And this is something that I support people in doing and helping them to connect with themselves and to heal themself and awaken that part of themselves that has all the answers so they can learn how to listen to that part of them and let that guide them.

Abby (00:09:25) So with that it’s a journey of going in with. Because I know that you have all of the answers that you need inside of you. You just need to learn how to connect with them, how to hear them. I mean, I did. And no one else can give you the answers it’s for exactly what you need, but you can give that to yourself and you have a medicine that’s in you that’s unlike anyone else’s.

Abby (00:09:57) So the world needs your gift. Lots are happening on the planet today. And we need all hands on deck. So who you truly are and what you come here to share with the world now is the time to discover that to embody that now’s the time to do what you came here to do. And if you don’t know what that is, and if you feel a little lost and overwhelmed and kind of disconnected from that, no.

Abby (00:10:28) It’s a part of you, you have a deep purpose for being here and something inside of you wants you to find that and you can find that it’s already something that belongs to you. And it’s simply a matter of learning how to navigate these aspects of yourself. This part of you, your light, your gifts, your peace, your freedom, your joy into your own life and the world.

Abby (00:11:00) Because as you do that, you contribute to this collective energy that helps us to shift into another space. As you learn how to heal yourself, you begin changing a world ripple by. And as you learn to heal yourself, you learn how to support others too, because we’re all going through our challenges, our struggles, but there are always ways through them.

Abby (00:11:29) They’re always, there’s always a place at the other side, waiting for you. And often I can feel like it doesn’t exist or it’s too much, or it’s overwhelming. You can get it, I don’t get weighed down by it. The heaviness of it all, but this is when it’s time to learn how to navigate that, to get support. Moving through that, I spent years feeling overwhelmed and anxious and depressed and angry and not knowing how to navigate myself or life.

Abby (00:12:01) And I spent several years learning how to do that. And once now that I know-how. There are so many ways that we can access this part of ourselves as part of ourselves within months, instead of years, within days instead of weeks. So it took me seven years to connect with my clarity and vision and who I wanted to be in the world, but it doesn’t need to take you that long.

Abby (00:12:34) You have those answers inside of. And as you learn how to go inward and connect with this part of you, and you know how to do that, you’re, you’re a sensitive person. You can do that. Everybody can, but those who are sensitive, have a special innate ability to tune in with that even more easily.

Abby (00:12:56) And as you kind of heals the things that blocked you from tuning in with that. Uh, in the first place, then that connection with yourself, with your higher self, with your heart, that gets easier and more established. And there’s, it just becomes a natural flow where you can begin just embodying the wholeness of view each day, the world.

Abby (00:13:20) It doesn’t mean that we don’t have challenges to overcome. That’s just part of life on earth. You can come towards them with a sense of empowerment, knowing that you have everything you need to move through that. And knowing that you are stronger than any obstacle you will ever face. So if you feel like you’re a highly sensitive person, step one is to give yourself some space to connect with you, to recognize that this is crucial and you are worthy of that.

Abby (00:13:51) And in doing so, you will also. Bring more light and connection to those that you love and to the world. And number two is learning how to navigate these parts of you. This deep train is within you so that you can connect with your inner healing and wisdom and guidance. And for many of us doing it in a community is an incredibly powerful thing.

Abby (00:14:18) I guess having a place to come back to on a steady basis, creates such a powerful momentum in your life. And in that space of continuity, it enables you to grow and change so much and to continue moving in the direction that you want to go with. As well as knowing that you’re not alone, you know, being a sensitive person, we’re about 20% of the world and it can feel like we’re just wired differently because we are, and having your community of others who are like you and of kindred spirits who are going through similar challenges to you who are also looking to find peace and freedom and understanding and purpose within themselves.

Abby (00:15:03) Then we hold a frequency for each other. That enables so much transformation and healing and growth within that space to come and be seen and to share your learning, and you teach each other so much. And knowing that you’re not going through any of these struggles by yourself and moving through these things, knowing that there’s nothing wrong with you.

Abby (00:15:28) You’re not broken. You’re not crazy. You just need the support and guidance and space. Navigate this powerful part of you, these gifts that you have to help to shift them from feeling overwhelming and into a space of understanding and tools and purpose to navigate this world that we live in. So if you think you’re a highly sensitive person, and if you’d like support and healing and connecting with your inner vision and purpose, then.

Abby (00:16:05) The mentorship program might be right for you. Uh, it starts in January and we go every week where we connect for an hour and a half to two hours, depending on the week. And we have an intimate group of up to six people and we connect for six months. And in those six months, a container of sacred support.

Abby (00:16:28) Is held that you can transform in such a deep and profound way with it. So we come together and we teach each other so much and we lift each other and we hold space to unfold them. And within that space, you learn to. To navigate, being a sensitive person to navigate healing yourself, to navigate connecting in and tuning in with the energies that are in life that are in the world that are in yourself and learning how to.

Abby (00:17:01) The ones that don’t serve you well, connect with the ones that bring you more flow and freedom and peace, and bringing that into yourself and your life enable you to then bring that into the world and bring your gifts and your vision in the world. And, you know, traditionally I mentioned, we play the sensitive people, often playing the role of the healer and guide.

Abby (00:17:26) And the world needs healers and guides. It needs those who are here to bring their medicine into this world, to heal themselves, and learn how to share their gifts because now’s the time. And you deserve to realize how powerful and magical you truly are. So, if you like to learn more, you can go to

Abby (00:17:55) You can schedule a free discovery call to see if this is the right fit for you. You can also find me on Instagram and Facebook as you are mind, body. So, thank you so much for listening. My love for you knows that you are beautiful. You have so many gifts to share and that peace and freedom are available to you.

Abby (00:18:16) You can create that in your life, right. I’m Abigail Moss and talk to you soon.


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Breann, Jessica & Abigail

facing shadow breann jessica abby
11 Facing shadows breann jessica abby

Breann, Jessica & Abigail

Breann and Jessica were my very first mentor students. We met every week for a year, and in that time I got to witness them grow into the incredible healers that they are today. In our conversation, we share ways that we each deal with both personal and existential challenges, and how you can move through challenges that you might be facing during these times of great change.

Connect with Breann:
Instagram: @venusandchiron
OfferingsConnect with Jessica:
Instagram: @zen.lasagna@thegoodmedicinepodcast
Free consultationConnect with Abigail:
Facebook: @yourmindbodyfree
Instagram: @yourmindbodyfree
Schedule a free discovery call here
Learn more about my 6-month Mentorship Program here.


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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello, and welcome to the mind body free podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss. And today I’m speaking with both Breanne and Jessica and Breanne is an intuitive coach and channel. And Jessica is an embodiment coach and Astro guide. And I feel so lucky to get to talk with these women today and to have gotten to talk with them every week for a year when we were doing mentorship, a program together, these are the first women that I got to teach, and they’ve taught me so much as well.

Abby (00:00:35)  And I couldn’t be more. Happy and proud to get to speak with them here today. So welcome Breanne and Jessica. Thanks for being here.

Jessica (00:00:45)  Hello. It’s hard to not want to speak over it. I was like, how do I say hi yet? Am I going to

Abby (00:00:58) Maybe I’ll just kind of let you both fill in. Is there anything else you want to add to the introduction? Ryanne 

Breann (00:01:04) Sure let’s see about me. Maybe just that I have a podcast, Venus and Chiron.

Abby (00:01:11) Which is awesome.

Breann (00:01:13)So on that podcast, I talk a lot about intuition and psychic abilities and how to tune into those more and kind of just my experiences navigating that as a person who has been like, kind of from early childhood was very open.

Breann (00:01:30)And didn’t have the boundaries or the grounding and had to kind of learn in that way, how to develop my abilities. And then I feel like I also speak to people that, that is that and wanting to develop their abilities more. So feel free to check that out. I have an Instagram. I’m sure Abby will put it all down there.

Abby (00:01:51) Yep. I’ll be on the show notes, Venus and Chiron. And you interviewed me there not too long ago. And I had to say like you, both of you ladies, you put people at ease and it’s so lovely getting to be interviewed by you. Cause it just feels like. You know, seen, and heard and you ask insightful questions.

Abby (00:02:06) So highly recommend people check that out.

Breann (00:02:08) I love that episode because so many people have messaged me being like, oh my God, Abigail’s amazing. So it was a lot of fun. 

Jessica (00:02:16) I found it fascinating because I downloaded all of your episodes on my flight to Denver. And I know you so well, but that first episode I was hooked as though I never had met you before.

Jessica (00:02:28) And I was like, I just, I need to keep listening even though I was like, but I know, I know, but I was like, please don’t wait. So it’s just like, from an artistic point of view in terms of the podcast content itself. It’s just, it’s really, well-made

Abby (00:02:47) Obviously we love each other.

Abby (00:02:48) All right. Jessica, do you want to add anything to the intro? 

Jessica (00:02:51) Yes. So I have a podcast as well. Everyone does. It’s called the good medicine show. And on there, I just, I bring people on in the main point of the show is to hear people’s kind of stories of how they found their own unique medicine and to let them share that story and to kind of touch on any offerings they have or any wisdom that they want to bring to, to the hour and a bit.

Abby (00:03:17) And that’s it. It’s a beautiful podcast. And you also speak on a lot of podcasts and Jessica isn’t like in-demand guests. So definitely go and hear her wisdom and her insightful questions and the Good Medicine podcast. And you’re on Instagram as well.

Jessica (00:03:34) I’m @Zen.lasagna. The podcast Instagram is kind of late.

Jessica (00:03:39)  I’ve just been tired of being an online presence. So I’m actually not online right now, but in my, my bio at Sendell is on, you can find my email. If you want to reach out or book a consultation, that’s still open. I’m just not going to be responding to DMS, for the foreseeable future because the internet makes me tired

Abby (00:04:00) Detoxing for a while.

Abby (00:04:01) Awesome. And I’ll have that. There are links to the show notes for that too. And you know, having gotten to work with you, ladies, I can’t say enough good things about your gifts and you both have such unique gifts okay. And so much wisdom from your life and everything that you’ve overcome and learned over time.

Abby (00:04:23) So I highly recommend people check you both out. So thanks for being here. We have a couple of things where you thought about talking about today and maybe one of them we’ll, we’ll jump into in a little bit, but so a little bit of background is we’re all healers. And so when we met a little over a year ago, we did a mentorship for one year.

Abby (00:04:49) I got to mentor you guys. And you were already obviously healers for many lifetimes. So it was super, super fun getting to teach you ladies, because it was like, wow, you are very gifted. You do. And through that time, and, and now it’s like more and more insight and wisdom kind of unfolds. And we talked about, you know, a few things today of like, One was being in a Scorpio sun, I think, and lots of deep inner work happening and how you know it, Scorpio is kind of like the depths of the ocean, where there’s lots of dark spots, but also a ton of potential for transformation.

Abby (00:05:24) And I think maybe you mentioned that at first, Jessica, and then I started nodding very emphatically. Yes. I feel that you mentioned that to Breanne, so maybe we can touch on that first. What is the Scorpio time and how can we best face this time, our best move through this time with some grace. Okay.

Jessica (00:05:48) I will, I vote to give that one to Breanne?

Jessica (00:05:50)  Cause she’s just their wisdom around astrology she’s well cultivated.

Breann (00:05:55) So Scorpio season the way I perceive it as it’s that death and that rebirth. So there’s that huge transformation potential of going from. Life to death, to life again, in a new and different way. And I think one of my favorite ways to move through any astrological sign and Scorpio is no exception, especially here in North America is to watch the seasons.

Breann (00:06:22) I know when I’m when you’re feeling this intensity and this like because Scorpio is very intense like it’s like this intense depth of like emotion. There can be stagnancy and it’s, there can be a dredging up of a lot of old stuff that needs to be cleared so that you can be reborn in spring or even so that when we’re moving into the winter months, we’re not bringing that stuff with us.

Breann (00:06:48) Like when you look outside at the trees, they’re all losing their leaves and they’re shedding all of these layers so that they can direct their attention in the world during the winter and cultivate what they’re planning to create in the spring. So I find it helpful to always look to the seasons as guides and as medicine.

Breann (00:07:11) So going for walks and just talking to the trees and just noticing the earth and how it’s moving through Scorpio season can be a great mirror for how we can move through Scorpio season. I don’t know if that’s too vague.

Abby (00:07:25) No, that’s fabulous.

Jessica (00:07:28) What’s interesting. Are they the image and I don’t know, this might be because Halloween has passed and the pumpkins are now rotting but I like the idea of scrubber season being kind of that. It’s going to sound a little graphic, but like that spiritual rotting phase where it’s not even like the rot isn’t bad, but no, like insists. But instinctually, we kind of stay away from it in terms of what we want to consume. And we’re very consumer-oriented so the rotting can feel very uncomfortable for, I think our culture where, when you think about the rotting in terms of death, all that nutrients go back to the earth, but something. I think people were, we’re a death shy culture and we put us, our people that have passed inboxes and kind of keep them separate from the earth. And  I think that there’s a lot of discomfort around Scorpio season where there doesn’t necessarily have to be. I don’t think it’s natural that there’s just comfort around this time of year, but it’s definitely there, especially, I noticed it in myself.

Breann (00:08:29) That’s a really good point. And I noticed it’s funny that you are talking about death and talking about a kind of ugliness like the rotting pumpkin. It’s so interesting. When I went through a walkthrough of nature around the Scorpio new moon, I ended up searching everywhere for something beautiful. Like I just wanted to look at the pretty and the nice cause I didn’t want to look at the ugliness in myself. And then I noticed I was doing it. So I allowed myself to look at the ugly parts of the world and I just fell in love. I was like, can I love this? And it was like, absolutely, of course, I can. And I just found beauty. It wasn’t even finding the beauty in the ugliness. It was seeing the ugliness as beautiful. And then I wrote a poem about it and I was like, ah, epiphany, that is beautiful. 

Abby (00:09:18) That poem that you shared on your Instagram you shared a new brand and incredible poet. I love what you ladies are saying about that. And it reminds me of a quote I read about by Carl Young, not too long ago, and this is not the exact wording, but as I remember it, he said, you know a lot of traditional therapy will try to move you around, like a move you away from depression, move you above it and out of it. And he said, you know, you need to grab them by the neck. And we’re just a little rough and go into it. You need to move through it. And it’s that like, let’s look away from death. Let’s not acknowledge it. And death is like the death of the body, that the king leaves the death of the ego, the death of an old chapter in life. So that, like you said, in the spring, we can birth a new one. And I feel like it’s so healing to have that mindset. Recently for me, I just re-processed a really big piece with my husband of this old wound that started years ago when I came back from Peru and I almost went and just had a different life and just lived in the jungle for a long time. And part of me it was still like, you could go do that. Maybe you’d be happier. Maybe this life’s all wrong. I was like, oh, hello toxicity. That sounds very dangerous. And that came up again and it was, you know, it was just like both he and I was like, wow, this big pile of poison just showed up. How do we deal with this? And I just like slept for most of the day or morning and processed it and then realized, oh, no, that’s no, I chose this life. And I’m really happy. And that wasn’t actually what I was. But that old wound needed to come up to be released, but with less awareness, I could have just gone and been like, oh, I didn’t need to leave you to do that life. It’s like, no, no, that was an old wound coming up because before we started recording Jessica, you had said, oh, this stuff’s coming up because I feel well enough to deal with it. And I feel like I have a level of awareness and love and stability in my life to process this.

Jessica (00:11:22) But it’s difficult because it takes that quietness and being able to hold yourself enough to realize that that’s the truth.  And that’s because like the other day I woke up and the thought that came into my mind was the first thing I heard when I woke up as I have a borderline personality disorder and I haven’t had that thought or identified in that way for a very long time. But deep aspects. This whole move, from Calgary to British Columbia has unearthed trauma between ages like 10 and 16 when all of that started. So it does feel like I have that again, but it’s not that I have that it’s, that I’m moving through the root system of what that was. It’s like the plant has been cut off. There are no more flowers on that tree of that illness identification, but we’re just taking the roots out.

Abby (00:12:17)And it’s like you, you feel and Whitten and remember witness and remember as it’s leaving and all we have to do is a process and not attached to it, which, you know, that’s all, it’s so simple.

Jessica (00:12:28) It’s easy right ladies? 

Breann (00:12:30) Absolutely. I’ve been walking in the park.

Jessica (00:12:34) I’m having a great time,

Breann (00:12:40) Does call for that stillness though. Like, and maybe that’s a theme in my life. I know I recently did a ceremony with Iowasca and a big message that I was seeing was like, this, do this, this oscillation in my life between this restless, like rash action and this like stagnant energy and kind of going back and forth, which I see in my psyche as the mother and the father in my life. And I lost it, I kept being like, can you come back to stillness? Can you just come to stillness? And she was showing me how, like, if I can just like the difference between that restless energy of, oh my God, I’m so uncomfortable. I just need to change my situation right now versus that stagnant energy of, oh my God, I’m so uncomfortable. I just need to shut down right now. And then coming into this stillness state, I was at work the other day and all of these thoughts were in my head. And I was like, I heard, I was asked to say, what if you were just still? And so I became still, and it was so fascinating because you know that feeling when your mind is racing and it’s like a ping pong, I don’t know, like pew, pew, pew have all these thoughts. I became still. And I realized all the thoughts were still there. Just like floating around my aura, just kind of there. And when I was still, it was like, well, does it matter? Like whatever becomes of any of these things will become, I don’t need to think about it. I can just. It was like, oh, that was easy.

Abby (00:14:07) It’s so powerful.

Breann (00:14:08) Once you do it, it’s easy.

Abby (00:14:10) It’s like the opposite of anxiety I am, as I imagine it anyway.

Jessica (00:14:18) No, that’s so interesting. And what, what, I’m what I’m noticing myself as like are or returning to my feminine energy. And it’s interesting when you talk about the stagnant or the rash, I think within myself, my masculine energy either feels stagnant or like it needs to go. And maybe my feminine is where I can find that stillness, but like my feminine is so powerful when I remember that it is, but a lot of the time habitually my masculine energy views it as a weakened vulnerable, something that needs fierce protection. And that aspect of me will live. The external world, bad and dangerous, where if I can soften and find stillness and allow the feminine to be like, Hey, this is okay. We’re not in control. We’re just flowing more than my masculine can be like, okay. So I don’t need to freak out. It’s like, no, you don’t, you don’t need to freak out if that would help. But I think that at that age where I was speaking about from 10 to 16, I think my masculine energy took over and was like, okay, we’ll create a mask, which is very BPD. Like we’ll create this mask and that will protect the inner child. And she just stayed in there and saved really little and never really had the chance to flourish or evolve. But through working with you, Abby, like, and that’s the other thing I wanted to mention was I did the mentorship with you. But before that, for about, I think eight months we worked together and it was only in those sessions with you. That like I’d show up at your house and I’d be like, oh my God, I feel like myself. And then for the next few days, I’d be like, oh my God, I’m myself. I’m empowered. That would go away a little bit. And then I come back and work with you again. And you were just mirroring or like seeing me for who I was. And that’s what led me to even want to ask you to do the mentorship. So I think that when you look at Scorpio season BREEAM, would you see that as like feminine or a masculine-feminine? 

Breann (00:16:27) In the water?

Jessica (00:16:30) So maybe it’s quite difficult when you’re existing within the kind of a, not so healthy, masculine energy, and that’s how you operate. I can see that making Scorpio season a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

Breann (00:16:42) I could see that. I could see that I’m going to double-check the feminine masculine. I’m pretty sure it’s feminine,

Jessica (00:16:48) But like, you’d be right. Cause the water element 

Breann (00:16:50) Yea it is. It is feminine. I love it. And it’s that anytime you’re in that watery realm, right?  It’s like the masculine doesn’t flow, the masculine. I know Jess and me. I used to be on the good medicine show and we interviewed someone once who gave an incredible analogy that I use all the freaking time. What was her name? 

Abby (00:17:09) Taylor. Taylor, 

Breann (00:17:11) Yes. And it was about the masculine and the feminine. And it was where the masculine is like the riverbanks and it creates the structure and without the masculine and the feminine is the water. So it’s like the water running through. And if the masculine is not present, then the water just has no direction. And it just kind of goes out everywhere. But if it has too much restraint on the feminine, then the feminine isn’t able to like move and flow or it could even like a flood over. And it’s about that relationship of the riverbanks and the water flowing through to create this like healthy balance within yourself. And then when you have that within yourself also mirroring that in relationship with that. 

Abby (00:17:53) And I love that description. I couldn’t agree more with the masculine versus feminine energy.

Abby (00:17:58) And thank you for what you said, Jessica as well. I think that’s beautiful and I think, I feel like that kind of ties into it too, or like the feminine kind of needs to feel safe enough. To feel seen and acknowledged to come out. Cause I found that in myself too, it’s like when I’m around, it’s easier now because I like a deeper sense of belonging in myself, but that is hugely nourished by people who are ready to also be themselves and are, you know, can meet in a similar place. And so it kind of opens the door, like a channel for the water to flow. It’s like, I’m allowed to be here. I can flow into these channels. 

Breann (00:18:41)And it’s, it’s interesting that you say that too. Cause it kind of, I, as you were speaking, I was seeing two levels of that, where it’s like the one level of the patriarchal system that we live in and how that has shamed and shrunken the feminine in this way, where like it needs that safety to be able to express.

Breann (00:19:02) But then on another level, when I really tune into the feminine and me without any of the masculine presents, just that core feminine. Like an absolute abyss. It’s just this absolute infinity. Like I’m always just floating in this dark ocean of infinite flow and energy. And it reminds me of when I came to you in the mentorship program and it’s like, I am so connected. I can see all of these things. How do I structure it? And it’s like, you need to bring in that masculine energy to be able to bring all of this deliciousness into form in this reality.

Abby (00:19:49) It supports it. The masculine imbalance supports the feminine and then the feminine guides, the masculine, I was like, where are we going?

Jessica (00:19:51) This is why it’s so important to heal like these patriarchal wounds because the masculine historically was controlling of that divine, feminine energy. And of course, the feminine turns toxic as well. And both of those exist. But when you have that divine masculine in that divine feminine, it’s like.

Abby (00:20:08) Powerful. And the patriarchy hurts both men and women. I was talking with David about that this morning, you know, roles and gender roles of how you should be growing up. It’s hard for everybody. And so like for, you know, both men and women, to be able to be allowed even to feel the feminine and the masculine within themselves in a way that feels safe.

Breann (00:20:3) Yeah. I’ve had a lot of like the work that I do with male clients, especially people that are seeking out this type of work. One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of them have had examples of masculinity in their life that have made them not want to have power. They don’t want to touch it because they don’t want to hurt anyone, but to feel empowered, they need to reclaim that healthily. What I noticed when I work with people sometimes will kind of help them kind of split into that masculine, feminine. And what I always notice is if there is a belief in the masculine, if I need to be in control, then there is the alternative view in the feminine of I’m not safe. So then we choose which belief in, depending on the day that they’re having, what belief do you feel more comfortable working on first? And then once we free that one up, the other one is so ready to be seen and worked through on that like deep body level. And then we bring them together. And the words I usually use are let’s invite them to dance along the middle. 

Abby (00:21:30)  Hmm, that’s great. I love them. 

Beann (00:21:32) Yeah. And the way their voices change is that the light in their room changes on the video. Like an epic. It just, it, it, and you can tell they’re feeling better. I’m like, Hey, but this isn’t practiced. We have to practice unifying these causes habitually, you’re going to want to pull them apart the second year triggered so we could practice unification. And that’s even something that I’m probably going to be continuing to learn within myself for years.

Abby (00:21:58)  Yeah. And, and feeling safe. And coming back to that place of grounded, you know, awareness, especially, and it’s. Our past experiences, which I am a huge part of it. It’s also the world we live in. You know, we live in an even in nature, if I go into the forest and I see the prey animals, I’m like, oh man, not easy being a rabbit and a world full of coyotes, but it’s part of being alive and we’re here and having this experience of consciousness and working through it, you know, part of me wonders because we are a part of nature. I feel like I’m getting into a bit of a tangent right now.

Jessica (00:22:36) I love it. I love the tangent. 

Abby (00:22:37) Okay. All right. I’m going to keep going. Thanks. I feel like, you know, life still feels kind of raw here and it is. And like as humans, we like to kind of pretend to be civilized, but we’re still a part of all of that and made of that, an extension of nature. And, you know, you can see the possessiveness in nature, the fear, the dominance, the brutality, as well as the love and the kindness and the gentleness as this duality. That’s been here for as far as we know, but part of me feels like as humans are we here supporting this? Are we here supporting this evolution into a place of more gentleness or more of a feeling of safety overall through being, you know, a human animal, then awakening to this stuff?

Breann (00:23:29) Yeah. It’s interesting. What came forward immediately was that it’s hard to be a rabbit in a world full of coyotes, the rabbit right out the gate has an abundance of food all around it. For the most part grass leaves. It can just eat, eat, whatever it wants, but the coyote has to go looking for the food and find the food. So when you look at it from that perspective, Survival, the coyote has fewer threats coming towards it, but it needs to find the rabbit or it starves where the rabbit is just like it has to avoid the coyote, but the food is plentiful. So it’s like this. Yeah. This is a radar image. Yeah. 

Jessica (00:24:08) Yeah. It reminds me of like, if you ever watch a documentary that’s focused on a lion and you just really want them to get that zebra, and then you watch a documentary focused on the zebra and you’re like, oh, the evil lion. And it’s like, right. Nature that I think I would love. I think humanity could benefit from returning in a way if it’s not like it’s without pain. It’s not like it’s without suffering. It’s not like it was without this, this devastation. That just seems to be a part of the human and animal experience.

Jessica (00:24:42) But like a coyote doesn’t kill just for fun. When a coyote eats a hare it’s to nourish themselves and their children, it’s, there’s this, there’s this balance and this harmony and this, this respect, that nature seems to have for one another. And of course, you don’t see that in all aspects of nature, there are different things that happen. But I think humanity with us, as our consciousness increases, I think we’ll have more potential to come back to a state of that, where it’s like, we take what we need and we give what we can return.

Abby (00:25:22) Yeah, so much power and so much potential, and we’re either directing it towards total devastation or incredible heavenly blessing or sorry.

Jessica (00:25:31) And when we find the balance. And I, oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, I was going to say, you can see that just in terms of what the world’s going through right now with COVID and that decision around a vaccine and then the mandates it’s like, we were not coming to an acceptance that there are different ways of being here. That there’s, there are very, very different ways of being.

Abby (00:25:57) Yeah. And then I could see both sides of like, you know, fear of. Getting to have bodily autonomy and, you know, do what feels right for your body and live in a way that feels natural versus fear of spreading the virus and, you know, not having control over what others do obviously. And it’s a very strong example of duality and polarity. And I think we were kind of chatting in the bit where it’s like, I can see both sides, but sometimes it’s hard to see both like to hold one hand at the same time because they both feel so opposing and charged in that way. Yeah. 

Breann (00:26:40) And I know when I watched this, like on the news and you see it with a lot of issues these days, there’s, there’s such an intense polarization. And I feel like. From my perspective, the medicine that’s needed for both parties is empathy and compassion, because so often it’s just this energy of, yeah, like nobody’s listening to each other. Each person is passionately believing their perspective, which is okay. But without listening to the other side, the reality is that both sides exist and there probably is a middle ground we could get to. But for some reason, there’s just this complete separation from that. Nobody wants to look at the ugly parts of the other or each other, wanting to look at the ugly parts of each other.

Jessica (00:27:27) The idea that’s coming forward is the idea of like, literally like the masculine being on the right side of the body, this righteousness, right. Of this certainty, that the way I’m viewing this is the right way. And it’s like, okay, but what if you just left the car, left the conversation for a second, and went into acceptance for. You don’t know what this reality is. You don’t know where we’re going or what evolution has in her back pocket, where like you don’t know. And I’ve been, this has been like a thing that’s been coming up for what a year and a half now. The idea of certainty snakes. When I feel tightness in my body, when I feel like I am right, I can almost picture these like certainty, snakes, coiling up and tightening in my body. And then, what I’ve realized about them is that they’re not bad, but they’re not pets.

Jessica (00:28:17) I have to let them go. They belong in the wild. I have to let go of my certainty, snakes, what moves out of my body, ease, relax. And I work with this wonderful being named Oscar. And when I get into deep certainty about how things are, or what I think is right or wrong, he’ll remind me that the place that we’re standing as living beings is the bourdo like this is the liminal space between death and rebirth and birth and death. So all lessons are being learned here. All perspectives are available here, and if I want to grab onto one, okay. Have fun with that game. But eventually, I’m going to have to let that go. Either when I leave my physical form, to let myself have a more enjoyable life.

Abby (00:29:03) I can let that go now. Yeah. A hundred percent, you know, and I won’t go into too much, but like to let that go, when you leave your physical form, you can choose to stay attached to that. And you know, your haunt, everybody on this point of me being right, I’m not moving on. I gotta prove this still body or no, you’re right. And that’s never helpful either. But yeah, it’s absolutely. And it’s something that I’m, so it reminds me of a couple of things. One neuro-linguistic programming, it’s like a modality where they teach and then they talk about, you know, having a map of the world and we all have our own map of the world and the way we see things through the filter of our beliefs and past experiences.

Abby (00:29:42) And then with that, we delete, distort, and generalize the information, the input that we’re doing. And so there is no truth. There’s the way that I am perceiving it through the filters of my mind always. And we’re just programmed as humans to experience life that way always. And like, let me make an absolute right now. And then and then with that, you talked about like, you know, letting go of certainty. So we lost Breanne for a little while. She heard me she was there and then she wasn’t there. So I’m just going to recap a little bit. Could we pause the recording? So we’re talking about Byron Katie. And challenging kind of what you talked about earlier as certainty snakes, Jessica, and how, you know, the belief of being right and I’m right.

Abby (00:30:27) And they did this to me and I need to do this. It’s the only way, and they are wrong and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like all those things that make your body go all rigid and tight and your face go red. It’s like the body trying to reject that toxic belief. That’s not in alignment because your body lets you know when things belong and don’t belong there.

Abby (00:30:49) And I was mentioning how, whenever I challenge a belief of something, you know, that feels painful. It feels so counter-intuitive, it feels like the most uncomfortable thing imaginable. You know, push at this pillar of the belief that I’ve currently am holding myself upon, but whenever I do that, and whenever I say, is it true? Can I be absolutely certain that it’s true, that so-and-so did this to me or that, you know, the world is blah, blah, blah. And then whenever I challenged that and no one ever asked, who would I be on the other side of that, the answer is always free. I will be free without that. And it’s really such a painful and powerful process.

Abby (00:31:31) That’s why Byron Katie calls it the work. Cause it’s not necessarily fun, but man, is it effective and powerful?

Jessica (00:31:39) Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know who said it, some, some Buddhist monk of some sort, but it’s that statement of I’d rather be free than,  and I feel like it’s really, it’s interesting. I think you see this with a lot of social justice issues now, and I think it’s an interesting thing.

Breann (00:31:58) We’re trying to figure out how to navigate as a collective, because when there’s a lot of rage and anger, which I’ve seen a lot of, there is this, like, it is valid. Like this anger is valid. This rage is valid. These injustices are true and really healing. That is an inside job in a lot of ways. Of course, everybody, like people, all need to choose to do the healing. And there is absolutely a need to communicate that outwardly until like, you know, activism and things like that are really, really important. But it’s interesting. I don’t want to generalize, but some of the more I feel like I see some of the more like radical energies are very not looking at themselves and healing their internal stuff.

Breann (00:32:54) And so the way that things are communicated can become distorted. Yeah. I don’t know if that’s 

Abby (00:33:00) Yeah, I see it as like, and I, I, I can definitely see that. And I feel like I struggled with that for a while. You know, there’s a part of me and this was for me, there’s not anyone else’s experience I can speak to, but for me it a pardon me, like as a healer, that wants to be, there was to say, don’t play a victim, you know, like move on, get out.

Abby (00:33:22)  And I’ll use the parallel of the me-too movement because I’m a woman. So I feel like I can speak to that a little bit. When there was, you know, a lot of voicing of this happened to me and this happened to me, that happened to me. And there’s a part of me. That’s like, I don’t want to identify as a victim.

Abby (00:33:36) And then it took me a while to get to the point of like, this is just holding space. Right now. And the rest comes later for those who are ready for it to find freedom from that. But step one of holding space, and

Jessica (00:33:51) Like having a place for that rage to exist like that. Yeah.

Abby (00:33:56)  As you said, that anger is valid. Every emotion is valid. And where does it, where, when does anger get to have a place to exist? Not very often. 

Jessica (00:34:04) Absolutely. 

Abby (00:34:05) But then within the next step is how do we move, you know, rise, move through that and bring healing into it. And that’s a whole lot of steps that would look different for everybody. But I thought it was interesting, like for me, and I’ve noticed this in myself in a lot of different ways. And then my relationship to step out of the role of trying to fix it. Cause like, I know how to fix this. I’m good at fixing things. Let’s challenge ourselves. The beliefs let’s heal. Let’s do it right now. I was like, oh, you don’t want that. Okay. Yeah. I will practice holding space. And that was more uncountable.

Abby (00:34:40) For me to just be okay with them not being okay. But then on the other side of that is of course freedom. Yep.

Breann (00:34:50) Yeah. It’s the pendulum swinging, right? It’s like, you have to go to these kinds of opposite extreme states and slowly come back into the center. But there is, especially with a lot of the things we’re talking about.

Breann (00:35:03) There’s this like generational trauma that gets passed on and passed on and suppressed and suppressed. And so when you finally are in a place where it’s allowed to be spoken and it’s allowed to exist, it’s like, like a waterfall of emotions that can come out and it’s like, whoa. 

Jessica (00:35:22) And I think our culture does, it’s interesting to watch. Like I think that’s part of the polarization is it’s like not knowing how to hold that. Like people it’s like, well, like expecting to be at that center line now instead of. Going through the flow of the generations of healing this, yes. 

Abby (00:35:42) Yeah. How do we navigate that? And it kind of reminds me of the beginning. We were talking about the Scorpio season and going into the depths and the darkness of the ocean. And I feel like we’ve been kind of going through that for some time since COVID started. And, you know, with the black lives movement of all of this rising up to look at what’s going on, this is not okay.

Abby (00:36:02) And with every child matters with all of the bones of indigenous children were found at the residential schools. You know, it’s like, it’s, it’s so painful to feel that coming up. But then at the same time, to me, it feels like the beginning of healing, you know, it’s, it’s being on earth. It’s being acknowledged in step one. Yeah, totally. Yeah. It’s not the only step, but it’s, it feels like it often has to be the first one. Yeah

Jessica (00:36:37) It’s interesting. And this is kind of like a bit of a tangent, but very symbolic. I keep having these weird, momentary daydreams, or even waking up at night from having dreams that were depicting queen Elizabeth dying and a ripple that’s going to come from that. But this term of like, like the unhealthy matriarchal that was kind of in charge of what even happened there, what’s continuing to happen in North America or like Canada, I guess. Because North America includes the USA, but this idea of like you were saying, the feminine can be toxic as well.

Jessica (00:37:16) So this big mother wound, that’s also being unveiled right now when it comes to. I don’t know if I was going with that, but I keep having weird little creeps in daydreams about what’s going to happen when that falls, the interesting structure of power. 

Breann (00:37:39) I feel like, for me, everything keeps coming back to like empathy and compassion. At least my role in everything. It’s like, whenever I see and whatever, it’s like, when I see people being like, oh, well, they shouldn’t be the same group. They should be listening more. It’s like everybody, I just like compassion, empathy, compassion, empathy. Like how, like, how can I hold that space more?

Breann (00:37:57) It’s like, it feels like, yeah.

Abby (00:38:04)And it’s so simple, no matter what the context is. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, 

Jessica (00:38:09) When it comes to that compassionate empathy, the other, the other side of that, that I keep noticing in clients, especially clients that are trying to have better boundaries with people in their life that are not at a place of healing or that have abused them.

Jessica (00:38:23) It’s like, okay, you could have compassionate empathy, but you don’t have to carry their stuff. Don’t pick it up. So like compassion, empathy does not mean necessarily putting on their shoes or stepping into that person’s shoes, 

Abby (00:38:35) Compassion and empathy extend towards yourself as well. So if it doesn’t feel compassionate for you to let them into your space.

Jessica (00:38:44) Yeah. And I’m curious when it comes to all of this stuff, and I’m just maybe if you guys have words on this the understanding and acceptance for everyone in all of their views and having your own boundaries. So it’s like, because sometimes when I step into that space of empathy and compassion feel like my boundaries dissolve, it’s like, where do you, the this, this eyes of me versus the totality of the uses of the collective consciousness we live in, it feels right.

Abby (00:39:21) And I think it’s about the balance. And I kind of feel that too. There’s the ultimate oneness and heart union and connection, but then, you know, the egoic mind also has a place here to create a sense of separateness. And so like, you know, if I’m having dinner with Jessica, I want to know to put the food in my mouth and not Jessica’s mouth because I’m me and you’re you.

Abby (00:39:47)  And it’s that bad. And I, and I talked earlier about Byron Katie. When she first had her spiritual awakening, she didn’t have that balance, everything. It was just oneness and everyone was her beloved and she would touch them and hug them. And she couldn’t really function as a person in society for a while.

Abby (00:40:05) Same thing with Eckhart. Totally. He just sat on park benches all day long processing all of the stimuli around him. Because it was so mind-blowing to him. And then eventually he was able to ground into a form of structure and, and linear movement. But it’s when we’ve been in such a place of imbalance where there’s so much separateness, it can kind of go that awakening can kind of be a gradual dipping in and out of it, into the union and connection and back out of all right now, I need to care for my physical being to the separateness and for other people, it’s just this explosion right away, like Byron and Katie and I got totally. And then they have to figure out how to bring that balance back. 

Breann (00:40:47) Yeah, so true. Like I think that’s been a big theme actually for me during Scorpio season has been this I’ve really been, Iowasca really illuminated to me how deeply I just love everyone and everything. And I can just like, see that, that core light at the, at the essence of every human. And I just have this deep, profound love that I can go into with anybody like anybody, anything, any object, any being, and. I’ve been really, I mean, my whole life has been a practice of boundary with what I’ve recognized, but in this past month or so, there’s been a lot of tests coming up for me, okay.

Breann (00:41:32) Like you can see the core light of this person and can you set that boundary with them? And they’re not, you know, there are all of these layers of distortion above them that is making them act in these toxic ways. Can you love them completely and cut them out of your life? And it’s like, how do you hold?

Breann (00:41:51) And I have been, but it’s such an interestingly excruciating experience, to hold this like infinite love and create that separation and create that boundary. But it’s also completely necessary because if you don’t, that’s how you just, you can’t, you can’t come into the light of yourself because you’re so traumatized all the time. All the energy you invite in. Yeah. 

Abby (00:42:17)The sense that I feel is you holding those two together, just simply doing that is beginning to bring balance and harmony. The ability to hold both at once is so powerful and begins. Your energy is going to naturally start harmonizing between the two of them with the scales, the balance.

Abby (00:42:38) That’s your sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s like I forget who it was, but they talked about, you know, one of the Buddhas and how he’s aware of suffering and he feels the suffering of everyone. But at the same time, he’s joyful. And to be able to witness the darkness will also still relish in the light and to feel both, then you don’t need to hide from one or the other.

Jessica (00:43:07) Do you no harm take no shit.

Breann (00:43:15) The essence of boundaries, right? Like don’t, I think Buddha was like, don’t add to the suffering. You do your best as you can. Yeah, it’s interesting. It reminds me too. I just keep seeing the visuals like zeros and ones like that. Duality, like structure that we’ve been living in and, and existing in and creating everywhere around us, and how challenging it is for our brains to rewire and not just see things as duality.

Breann (00:43:44)  Like you see this, I think a lot with sexuality and people and their struggles with comprehending that there’s more than just males and females and that there’s this spectrum of, of gender in the spectrum of sexuality that we can all exist in. Like rewiring the brain to see the world in that way and allowing things to exist, not just as black and white, but it’s gray. Like how do we, how do we, and it’s,

Abby (00:44:16) Like how do we, how do we, and it’s, it’s the meaning that we give it, like, we define it as light or dark or good or bad, and the soul just wants to have an experience. It doesn’t label it any one thing. And, you know, it’s so much of going back. I find in the healing journey is just witnessing, observing,  don’t be attached to the labels.

Abby (00:44:35) I allow them to be there, but just witness it. And I find that like with past life work when I’ve gone back to really early life, that was one of my core wounds, where I was a hunter and I killed this animal and I loved the whole experience, felt primal and alive until I looked at the hurt on the animals and the hurt.

Abby (00:44:5) And I made eye contact and I felt this profound pain in the eyes of its family. And I realized I had done this and that I had at that moment, all of these things I’ve met in nature, I met that it is this way. I’m mad at myself. I’m mad at God. I get it, all of these things, which took several lifetimes of the work process.

Abby (00:45:16) But this life going back to that scene for me anyway, it was like, it was about, can I continue looking into the eyes of that being, and hold love, even though there’s all of these things that I don’t like happening, that I want to be different. Can I accept this and sit with this and witness this and just allow myself to stay there and not run away from it. It was where I found a lot of it was the healing that I needed to find in that. Yeah,

Breann (00:45:47) My partner calls this putting on the wet sock. It’s not, it’s not comfortable. It’s not comfortable. It’s like the entrance into the God realm is putting on a wet sock. 

Abby (00:45:58)  That’s the hilarious entrance into the God realm. You are going to put your wet sock on and then we will go, no, it’s not, but it’s powerful and it’s alive. And it’s, it becomes part of, for me anyway, feeling more alive. And it’s, it’s like a heart-opening experience. I feel like that, like, it’s a continuous journey of heart-opening, heart-opening, and awakening, 

Breann (00:46:25) Just having the visual of the heart-opening. And it’s like, the more your heart opens, the more you can hold. The more your heart opens. The more you can hold because you’re just bigger and bigger. It’s like in and of yourself. Yeah.

Abby (00:46:38) I kind of have a habit of breaking up. I’ve heard people talk about this when they have children, I don’t have children, but people talk about that when they have children. And they say, I don’t know if I can hold this much love.

Abby (00:46:50) And it’s just like this full cycle of, I feel like, can be so powerful when someone comes into the world, when someone leaves the world, like when my dad passed away and I just felt, wow, like the bigness of that is just so big to feel in my heart. Wow. It’s a lot. Yeah. But it’s all based on love at the end of the day. Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Jessica (00:47:17) There’s a lot of collective grief happening right now. Yeah. It just feels like there’s a collective grieving happening. I think like the idea a lot of people have talked about it could be, you look at the astrology community, the moving into the age of Aquarius, kind of like that official.

Jessica (00:47:31) It’s the age of Aquarius now? Well, we’re grieving. The way, the old era, the era that’s passing away, that age of Pisces, right. And whenever anything dies, there’s a huge Creek. Because we were tied to that. It was what, an interesting time to be alive, where we’re moving through that process of like a literal new world unfolding the uncertainty of what is, what is life going to look like?

Jessica (00:47:59) Now we have no idea what this new age is going to bring. 

Abby (00:48:02) We don’t, and it’s so exciting and heartbreaking to be letting go of the old one, the clearing out for a new kind of spring. Sorry. Yeah. 

Breann (00:48:13) And it’s funny because we’re, that’s the, like astrology can put things on such a big scale where it’s like, we’re not even going to see what the core of the age of Aquarius is because it’s thousands of years and we’re just, we’re the, just this tiny speck.

Breann (00:48:28) And of course in different lifetimes, maybe we’ll play it out. Right. But it’s, it’s so interesting to think of. When you put it on that scale, it’s like, yes. Like things take time. Things take generations to move through such a collective. We can do our own individual process and that helps move along the collective and whatever way we do our process, but it is like this just, can you be present with and accept what is, because it is, and obviously also do your part to change because yeah.

Abby (00:49:04) It’s the balance, right? It’s not necessary to be different, but also doing your best to co-create a good world for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jessica (00:49:17) And it’s interesting. Like I think when it comes to. Like accepting other people’s views and accepting other people’s perspectives on real life, right. And wrong. You don’t necessarily get there until you learn to accept yourself and all the parts of yourself that you’re pushing back against.

Jessica (00:49:37) Right. And then, and when you know that you can accept your story and you can read your story with understanding and compassion, empathy, then you get to pick up that pen and start co-authoring. Then you actually feel like you’re in a bit more control. And what’s interesting is like the people that and there’s, there are so many people around the world that and maybe it’s a bit of a, a judgment to even assume this, that they, they, they might not have this level of awareness where they can recognize that, that statement from, you know, Jesus, that guy that was around of forgiving them.

Jessica (00:50:13) They know not what they do. If they had the depth in the awareness. To see what’s actually happening. Would they be behaving in that way? 

Abby (00:50:22) Exactly. And there’s this, the debate out in them, out in the world of determinism versus free will and which is it. And I feel like it’s both, it’s determinism when you’re simply reacting through your imprinting and your triggers and your traumas, and you don’t yet have the awareness to change that.

Jessica (00:50:44) And then it becomes free will when you awaken to the choice and the power that you have to respond differently and to create what you want instead of what you just see around you so free will exists within perspective. 

Abby (00:51:00) Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And all happens within it, that it can’t happen outside of you.

Abby (00:51:07) That’s an internal switch. Yeah. Yeah. 

Breann (00:51:12) The power of going within. I feel like I felt that a lot with my journey through feminism. I think first there was this period of educating myself and learning about myself and learning about the things that were happening. Like switching my perspective about the experiences in my life and what they actually were and how they were impacting me.

Breann (00:51:30) And then, I mean, when I came into feminism, it was very not cool to be a feminist. It was very, I mean, I don’t know if it is even now, but like it was where I was living and what was happening. It was like the butt of every joke. And so I feel like when I came out about it, I had to be very tactical.

Breann (00:51:49) But slowly that turned into rage. I feel like, and I had this whole process of rage and then slowly I had to take that rage and I had to like, okay, like it’s such a hopeless feeling. It feels like determinism. You’re speaking about where it’s just like, well, there’s nothing I can do every time I walk down the street, this happens.

Breann (00:52:07) And every time, you know what I mean, that’s just like, this is just my experience in this reality. And then taking that within and taking those beliefs within and like processing that within my own system ended up changing how I move through the world in this interesting way that just had me being surrounded by fewer threats and I’m still processing through a lot of stuff, but it’s interesting to see just on my own, in my own psyche, how that’s that transition in that area of life into freewill has healed. That’s beautiful. But then again, yeah, the balance isn’t. It is both, but sorry, go ahead. No, I,

Abby (00:52:49) I can relate to what you said. I felt a similar thing and I went through veganism and I felt like I couldn’t, I had, it was walking on eggshells. And then I got a lot of rage because of that because I felt like I couldn’t be myself and the people weren’t listening to things that were really important to hear.

Abby (00:53:03) And, but they should have been. And they’re like, where did that rage have to go? When it feels like, kind of reminds me earlier, we were talking about holding space. It feels like you, how that space for yourself, you processed all of that. And What a cool thing to start as a society doing that for each other to collectively start holding space. Because the bigness of what needs to be processed I think is asking for that in a lot of ways. Yeah. I feel that so deeply, I just got chills. It’s like, yes. Like, you know what, if I 

Breann (00:53:36) Like, you know what, if I didn’t have to hold space for me, what if the collective could have held that space for me? And I feel like that’s why, or with me.

Breann (00:53:43) Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like that’s why, that’s the main thing that I’m trying to do right now with the things going on in the collective. It’s like, how can I hold the space for you? 

Abby (00:53:53) Yeah, totally. And I feel like coming together and having places where it’s safe to be you and be seen and not have to filter or hold back and you know, respectfully like, no one’s attacking anybody, but like like getting to talk with you ladies and you know, my community it feels like this is a place that.

Abby (00:54:15)  People can be seen and nurture it for their differences and not to woo or be too magical or too weird or too much, you know? And it’s like that alone just feels so healing and it’s like nourishment that makes it so much easier to then be tolerant of our differences. Yeah. It’s yeah,

Jessica (00:54:36) It’s interesting. I’m curious when it comes to the emotion of anger something happened in the town that I live in, where it was a remembrance day ceremony and someone brought their own microphone and started in the middle of the remembrance day ceremony yelling about mandates around vaccines. And it was like, okay, your anger has spilled over into a place where you’re interrupting other people’s grieving right now.

Jessica (00:55:03) So it’s like when, when anger crosses that line into that kind of righteous. And it’s like, oh man, like you, you’re almost hurting your stance around your, your freedom when you invade someone else’s boundary to yell about it. Right. Yeah. Hmm. 

Abby (00:55:23) Hurt people, hurt people. Yeah.

Breann (00:55:26) And I think that’s like therapy and, you know, just having your communities of support is so important because yes, that anger needs a place and the place is not at this, this remembrance day ceremony.

Breann (00:55:39) The place is maybe doing like. Release writing in your bedroom or calling up a friend and having an emotional release or, you know, some sort of physical activity or going to a therapist or whatever.

Abby (00:55:52) And then taking a bag of sand and beating it up with a bat.

Breann (00:55:56)  Exactly. Like these are the places to healthily release our anger and our rage that absolutely needs to be released. And then when you come to the group and you come to like to preach to the collective about your experience, people will be able to hear you better because that anger and that rage will be cleared in your, your language will be more clear.

Abby (00:56:17) Yeah, exactly. 

Breann (00:56:18)  Sorry, I’m just talking with my hands, like crazy over here.

Abby (00:56:20) You know, we’re, we’re all just enraptured by your hand motions and hopefully we will get a seat.

Abby (00:56:24)  Imagine. I just want them to know when they listen to the hand dancing.

Jessica (00:56:29) Italian magic. True to his form. Oscar showed up with a wonderful image analogy. He was showing a kid trying to build something out of construction paper, but their hands were on fire because of the anger. So it’s just, it’s just burning up the message you’re trying to create. Hmm. Yeah. If they tended to the fire, then it could have created a bit of a warm space to have this message delivered instead of an Inferno, right?

Abby (00:57:01)Yeah. It’s great, it’s a great visual. And so I think what you’re saying, Brianna’s, let’s let some of those flames come down until we have like an Amber that can then fuel things instead of consume everything. And just for those listeners, Oscar is one of Jessica’s guides. So she checks in with him frequently.

Abby (00:57:22) There’s not another physical person here, but Oscar also gives us insight because they’re wondering.

Jessica (00:57:27) Yeah, all that was coming up in terms of the child with the fire is like the recognition of our, our collective innocence. 

Abby (00:57:36)Yeah, exactly. 

Jessica (00:57:37) That beautiful song that we are all innocent songs is just like playing in my mind for the last five minutes.

Abby (00:57:42) Yeah. Well, big kids heal trying to heal our inner child walking around in these adult bodies.

Breann (00:57:50) Yeah. Yes, yes. And that goes so well into what I was going to say about like, recognizing that, like that’s, that’s a child standing there with their hands on fire. That’s not a grown adult that should know what to do with that fire.

Breann (00:58:0) And when we’re talking about these big issues that are affecting people’s safety, people’s quality of life. People’s ability to survive. This is deep, deep trauma. Like these are the big issues. And I find a lot, people are like, they shouldn’t be talking about it. So angrily. And it’s like, yeah, you know, that’s not the most productive way to communicate these things.

Breann (00:58:23) There are other ways for them to channel this anger and to heal this stuff and all of the things that have happened to them and. The generations before them have made it so that it’s, they might not have the resources to go within and do that work right now. Like we need to do both, like if you’re in a place where you do have the resources and you are able to process your trauma, you need to be processing your trauma so that you can stand up for the collective in a healthier way.

Breann (00:58:52) And if you’re not, and you’re just raging in these, you know, less, you know, in whatever ways that you’re raging to the collective that’s okay too, you know, like empathy and compassionate compassion for that experience and where you’re at right now 

Abby (00:59:07) beautifully said. And when you imagine that, when you realize that, you know, we’re all, we all have the inner child and they’re, they’ve got, they went through a lot, even if we had a quote-unquote, typical upbringing, there’s still all kinds of stuff that, you know, We deal with, and we’re really sensitive and just imagining and thinking that, oh, of those people that I’ve blamed and the government and Trump, and now, you know, everybody’s like, well, wounded little kids, you know, in part they’re also powerful beings as the potential for greatness.

Abby (00:59:41)But I think when you bring in that perspective, it’s so easy for compassion to follow. Yeah. Yeah. 

Abby (00:59:52) Well, compassionate for yourself on T for yourself too, right? It’s like, I’m all, I’m innocent in this too. I give myself permission to have judged them. I give myself permission to, you know, to feel guilty about that.

Abby (01:00:04)  Like what can I, how many times can I allow whatever is to be, to be, and then yeah, just over and over and over. Can you just accept? Can you allow, can you, yep. No, that’s true. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I was,

Jessica (01:00:19) I was dealing with a little forgiveness bump in the road that I’ve run into with, with someone who used to be very close to me and the story it’s two years old and it came back and it felt just the same way it did when the experience happened, where it was at the the the bad end of the stick of them, them being very abusive.

Jessica (01:00:39) And I was just filled with all of these emotions. I was like, I need an external assistant right now. So I just immediately looked up a Ted talk on forgiveness. And the one, the one that I found it was, it was this, the simplest message, this wonderful person that had been through a lot in their life was like, can you think of a time where you wronged someone?

Jessica (01:00:59)  I was like, okay. And I was like, do you feel remorse? And it’s like, yeah, can you understand that the person that wronged you is probably feeling that same way. And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, does that let you open your heart a little bit more? I was like, huh. All right. Okay. But forgiveness is such an interesting topic in my perspective because it’s like if you feel like you have to forgive in order to be free.

Abby (01:01:30) Yeah. It feels like forgiveness is part of the puzzle piece, but it’s not the whole piece. It’s like, there’s the, I, I see this side of it where, you know, for me anyway, I felt like I needed to have an element of forgiveness. I was connecting with the spirit of wolves. And like when I had the whole nature is cruel and I can’t accept that thing.

Abby (01:01:51) And we’ll do like, you just gotta forgive forgiveness, you know? And when you, when you forgive you open your heart back up and then let us back in because it’s more painful. To have separateness to close off. And so if what you need at that moment is forgiveness to open your heart back up and take that.

Abby (01:02:05) And then maybe down the road, we’ll come in. We’re all in a sense. There’s nothing wrong in the first place. There’s nothing to forgive anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting because 

Jessica (01:02:15) I’m now just being forgiving as that same idea of I’d rather be free than right. So forgive us, this kind of dropping the holding onto the animosity of the pain that was given to you in that situation that you’re finding difficult time forgiving it.

Jessica (01:02:30) Can you just let go of the pain for a second and let yourself be free? And that’s maybe all forgiveness really needs to be, to release them from this view. 

Breann (01:02:42) Yeah, no, that’s true. But also let yourself get there in time, right? Like not having to rush there and not being stagnant. Like coming back into that stillness of like, you know, there are big things in my life right now that I’m, I’m on the road to forgiveness with and I’ve forgiven in certain layers and it’s like, of course, I like, I want to get to that, that freedom state.

Breann (01:03:05) So I want to say I forgive and I’ve done that a lot where I said, I forgive them and I do, but I’m lying to myself about it. There are parts, there are pieces that I haven’t healed that need to be healed for me to have that real fullness. But I think freedom exists on many layers. You can have that experience of freedom in different aspects of your being.

Breann (01:03:24) You don’t have to get to the finish line. 

Abby (01:03:27) Totally. You don’t need to jump to the destination of where you want it to be. It’s like that acceptance piece. Like I give myself permission to not forgive right now. I gave myself permission to be angry about that, to feel justified in that anger and that’s okay.

Abby (01:03:43) And yeah, and it’s really Amy Thiessen who I’m doing some kind of voice coaching work with right now. She’s a great coach in Calgary and she mentioned expectations versus permission. Or it’s like, as an example, I give myself permission to completely forgive everybody and be free right now.

Abby (01:04:02) It’s like, no, that’s an expectation. I give myself permission to be upset with this. Where can, how far can you go? Where it feels real and just stop there at that time where it feels real. And because you know as you push before you’re ready, then it becomes an expectation you’re trying to force interest.

Breann (01:04:19) Yeah, that’s good, I like that perspective. Yeah. Hm, Ooh. Yeah. Cause when you think about freedom, what is freedom really? Except just being completely at peace with all that is and just being, I don’t know, like, cause when I think about that, that feeling of acceptance when you actually get there, that feels just like that weight off that it would feel like to also be fully forgiving.

Breann (01:04:46)  Like when you’re fully allowed to be angry, it’s like, oh, that feels so good. Like when you’re fully allowed to express your woundedness, it’s amazing. But those are things that you give yourself permission to. Yeah, exactly. Self-acceptance yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

Abby (01:05:07)  It’s like when the inner child gets like this behavior is not acceptable and then just gets more bottled up and more upset until there’s more another tantrum and it’s like, it’s okay for you to be angry.

Abby (01:05:18) But you don’t get to speak to people lashed out from your anger. I will be apparent to you, but it’s okay to feel this way. 

Jessica (01:05:25) Yeah, there is something wrong , she just absolutely loved that soul. And he was talking and in a lecture one time and a woman came up and said, I find it really difficult to love myself.

Jessica (01:05:36) Like I find it really difficult to live by myself. He’s like, well, that’s really understandable in, in the world that we live in. Can you just start with accepting? Can you just start by accepting yourself? And I run into a lot of people in my sessions where they know a lot about the energy centers and I’m blocked in my heart.

Jessica (01:05:51) Shocker. I can’t love myself. And it’s like, okay, well the heart space, we might view it as the center of love, but truly what it is representing is acceptance. And I try to tell them like, it’s the space that represents the element of air. Think about throwing a ball through the air. There’s nothing that inhibits that ball from moving, the air completely accepts that the ball is moving through it.

Jessica (01:06:10) It’s not loving the ball. It’s just letting it be there. It’s letting it move.

Abby (01:06:18) And that allows, and it’s just want to touch on what you said about having a hard time. The person said I’m having a hard time loving myself, and I’m talking with my, our couples therapist the other day. And she said, you know, when there’s self-loathing, it’s a child trying to reconcile in an impossible situation.

Abby (01:06:39) So, you know, as children, if our parents are behaving in a way that we don’t feel safe or loved, our mind goes to being bad and wrong. And self-loathing, and because that is more, we’re able to process that then not feeling safe with our parents who are there, who are the ones to keep, to keep us safe.

Abby (01:07:06) And so on doing part of that is that recognition of this is just where you went when you were, or not. Again, simply oversimplified. I found that it was kind of free to see it in that way. That was just my young mind trying to process that, but I can recognize now that I am safe and there’s no reason to hate myself.

Breann (01:07:29) Yeah. When you, when you say that, it reminds me of one of the sessions that I did work with you where you kind of helped me, the undefined, my parents, and, and move instead to looking at the earth as mother and the son as father and recognizing that they’ve never put any judgment on me. They’ve never liked to recognize the safety in that truth, that kind of macro truth of where I really come from.

Abby (01:07:57) Yeah. The two feel the energy of unconditionally loving mother and unconditionally loving father don’t need that to come through our parents. As we get older, we’re able to bring that in another way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jessica (01:08:16) And that even just gave me the space to understand and accept where their pain came from.

Jessica (01:08:23) Right. When I knew that I had the safety of the big bodies, the big mama and the big daddy it gave me a bit more safe space to feel into what my parents and our children were going through. 

Abby (01:08:38) Compassion. You’re able to step out of that generational pain and see what frees you, it gives you the free will to not carry it forward. Do you think that the ability to feel compassion requires a sense of safety in order, in order to be able to go into compassion

Breann (01:09:00) The visual that’s coming to me, like, it feels true to me in a way. I Wasco when I did Iowaska she kept, for example, she kept every time somebody was being sick or, or crying immediately, I left my body and went to try and tend to them. And she kept bringing me back into my body. And it was this practice of feeling safe in my body and connected and empowered in my body so that I could meet those people from that embodied state.

Breann (01:09:28) So when you say compassion without safety, to me, I feel like it’s a bit dissociated. Like if you’re not safe and in your body, you can still give that compassion, but it’s maybe not connected into the core of you. And so isn’t as potent or maybe healthy for you. 

Abby (01:09:46) I don’t know if that really resonates with me.

Jessica (01:09:48) Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Cause maybe, yeah, it’s interesting that disconnect it’s like, are you still having compassion for you or are you leaving your inner child and going to just tend to. Yeah. 

Abby (01:10:04) And I feel like that’s where we start getting into the realm of like, it feels almost like a man and compassion. Like I need to go to the other saviors and, and in doing so bypassing stuff internally.

Breann (01:10:16)  It’s complex. It’s like, oh, okay, well this isn’t. And then that’s where you know the archetype of the person who goes to try and help you with the problem you didn’t want help with. It’s like, no, no, like I just need you to hold space. But if you can’t hold yourself and be in your own body, how do you feel? Yeah. Someone else.

Abby (01:10:40) Because it’s, and then it’s easier to see the things we want to heal inside ourselves. It’s easier to see it outside of us. And so it’s part of the work. It’s part of the, one of the things that we, when we challenge beliefs and thoughts is you know, if, if the thoughts said. They betrayed me one of the ways we turned it around as I betrayed memes. So in what ways did I do that to myself? And it’s a little bit different from the compassion piece we were just talking about, but just as an example of how, what we need to try when we need to fix someone, something in someone else, if it’s a need, I need to affect you. It’s painful for me to see you not fixed. It’s like, what is, what is it that you are really wanting to heal inside yourself? Hmm. Yeah. 

Jessica (01:11:29) Self-acceptance is a mirror. 

Breann (01:11:33) Yeah. I really liked that.

Abby (01:11:35)  I feel like we’ve gotten to cover so many cool bases. I’m sorry. I feel like you’re processing something just because I don’t want to cut you off.

Jessica (01:11:42) No, I’m just I’m processing the entire conversation we’ve had. 

Abby (01:11:45) I feel like we, okay. So something that I like to kind of maybe begin wrapping up with. What is the way that you step into that place of healing or acceptance? Like if you see the view, feel out of balance, or if you see a need for healing, what do you go to?

Jessica (01:12:08) Well, what’s interesting for me lately. And are you talking on a very personal level? 

Abby (01:12:14)  Yeah. So for yourself. 

Jessica (01:12:16) Yeah. And lately, it’s been extremely physical and elemental where it’s a cold shower, it’s a cold shower. It feels like an Oscar, the being I worked with showed, and someone asking why cold showers and he was showing. That the cold and the water, that’s very feminine and very at the moment, very present. So when you get into the cold shower, you immediately have to be in your body. So it’s like, it pulls your mind from the past and the future and brings you right here. And that has been one of the most important elements of my practice lately is to get back in my body and be here, be here, stop spreading myself out so thin and feeling so frayed for lack of a better term, afraid and frayed. Like, I feel like I’m so spread out that my fibers are like E. 

Breann (01:13:08) During the beautiful hand talking as well. 

Abby (01:13:11) Yes. Yeah. We’re all energy workers. 

Jessica (01:13:13) So it’s like, and yeah, on top of that, the cold shower also creates that element of stillness. Cause I have to be in the moment and I found it very interesting the other day I was having a really hard time, but I was out tying up some grasses organizing, falling things tying these grasses.

Jessica (01:13:32)And I was like, okay, well, I’ll just do some work on myself. But I was sitting there doing physical labor while trying to work on my kidneys. And I was like, this doesn’t work, Jessica. If someone was in a session with you and they were vacuuming, you’d be like, can you please lay down? So it’s like allowing myself that stillness.

Jessica (01:13:49) And I know this has been a big theme for you lately to Breanne. Is that stillness? 

Breann (01:13:55) Yeah, that’s so beautiful. And I love that too with the kidneys. Right? Cause what do the kidneys need? They need rest. They need to hold water and cold water.

Abby (01:14:06) How about for you, Breann?

Breann (01:14:09) I think two things come to mind. The one thing is there’s this 10-minute meditation I like to do where I don’t put on any music. I don’t have any intention going into it except to be. And just to, like, I just set a timer for 10 minutes and I make myself lie there for 10 minutes.

Breann (01:14:22) And it’s a practice of just being in my body, like just physically being in my body, not going in and psychoanalyzing and be like, oh, what’s this pain. Let me try and unravel it. Like not trying to heal anything, just being in my body. And I find when I allow myself that presence for even 10 minutes, it’s just everything naturally unravels itself without me doing anything at all.

Breann (01:14:47) It’s I think for me, my tendencies in terms of my trauma have been. Like my coping mechanism was to dissociate. And so anytime I’m feeling out of balance, it’s like coming back into my physical body, just being utterly aware of my physical presence, I think is the most centering thing I can do. And then just nature is another tool that I use to do that.

Breann (01:15:11) So going for walks in nature, I have a really intimate relationship with the plant world and I talk to plants all the time. And so when I go out in nature, usually what I’ll do is I’ll talk to them, the plants or the earth or myself, whoever. And I’ll say I’ll put my music on shuffle. And when I hit it, I’m like, okay, take control of this and let these songs just guide me through wherever I need to go. And then I just walked through nature and I just stopped. And I talked to the trees and I just became present, like what you’re talking about, Jess. Like, it’s like, I become so insanely present cause I get so. 

Breann (01:15:45) Enamored by nature, like just looking at tree bark or looking at the grass or looking at Moss. I get so infatuated that I completely forget about anything across time and space.

Breann (01:15:59) It’s like, I’m just completely present with this plant and this experience. And that allows the space for me too, to be, I guess, and to return to myself.

Abby (01:16:17) Yeah. Definitely relate to connecting with nature. And it’s infinite, well, the deeper that you look into it, then some more, it opens up. For me, it’s like going back to the simplest things often. So just breathing, I just reminding myself that that’s number one and recognizing moments when I’m not doing it and how different that really feels in my body.

Breann (01:16:40) So true. Yeah. It is all of those, you know, like coming back to your breath, just sitting still with yourself, having a shower, like all of those things are such big medicine. There’s, they’re so simple. Yeah. So simple and on the mind loves to complicate things. But at the end of the day, it’s really simple.

Abby (01:17:02) So, okay. So if somebody is going through a struggle right now, if anybody out there feeling overwhelmed with pull-out polarity in the world and all of this collective processing of Jessica mentioned before we recorded the dirty laundry, it’s like, it’s all here. What do we do with it? All of this stuff, that’s coming up. What would you want to say to them right now?

Jessica (01:17:26) Well, number one is you’re 100% without a doubt, not alone in it. And you’re allowed to make space to tend to yourself. 

Breann (01:17:37) Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like that’s the same. There’s nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Like I feel you, and this is an experience that a lot of people are having in a lot of different ways and the earth is here to help us with it.

Breann (01:17:52) We’re not, we’re really not alone. There are humans and there are healers that can help. And the earth is here to help too. We have plant allies all around us that I think can really just be that support as well. If you just go out, you don’t even have to have, I don’t know. I have like a really dingy looking park right next to my house, but I go there and I’m friends with the spruce tree there and I’ll just go there and put my hands on the tree and I’ll just let, let that stuff pour out of me because the tree knows what to do with that, you know, return it back to the earth and compost.

Abby (01:18:2) And if you don’t know how to speak to trees yet, just go be with it. You’re still speaking. Yeah. Communication happens in many ways. Yeah. 

Jessica (01:18:38) Just to add a little bit to not make what you feel inside of you bad or wrong, or try to banish it, just make space to allow it. And when you allow it, it’s a lot easier to let it move. Then if you’re trying to push it away or numb it out or make it a bad thing. 

Abby (01:18:58) Yeah, exactly. That’s where it gets pushed into the shadows. What a wreath.

Breann (01:19:09) Yeah. Like the shame cave, and just like guilt in the heavy clouds that those things create. And like, resistance is so funny. Like sometimes I’ll resist something for days, weeks, months.

Breann (01:19:17) And then when I finally stop and I look at it, I’m like, I don’t need to feel ashamed about this. I don’t need to feel guilty about whatever’s coming up and I just let it be. Like I, the emotion pours out and I’m like, oh God, that was so easy. It’s healed now. Like I just needed to allow it to be innocent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica (01:19:39) Yep. Yeah. And if, if you’re trying to figure it out, like if you’re really grabbing onto it and you’re trying to figure out the answer, I recommend feeling into your awareness. That’s probably behind your eyes at that moment that you’re trying to figure it out with your brain and just imagining your awareness, like an ice cream cone on a warm summer day, and just let it melt down into your heart space.

Jessica (01:20:01) Just let yourself come back down and drop the, I need to fix this mentality and just let yourself be still like Breann said for 10 minutes, just let yourself have a moment. And I guarantee you’re going to feel at least a little bit of space to breathe after that.

Jessica (01:20:19)  Yeah, recognizing that you can shift where your awareness is in your body has been a huge step in my ability to be there for myself. Yeah. 

Abby (01:20:28)  Everything’s energy somewhere in the body. Yeah.

Breann (01:20:32) Yeah. It reminds me of, I think, when you notice your mind thinking or analyzing or whatever, just saying judging like, oh, this is what I’m doing. Like, just noticing what you’re doing and just saying it, no judgment about what you’re doing, but just like, oh, this is what I’m doing. Okay. And then every time you do it, just say it again, say it again until it’s like, oh, okay. 

Abby (01:20:54) Yeah. It’s not even like a judgemental word. It’s just like I noticed you. Okay. Awareness bringing awareness into the habit

Breann (01:21:02) Bringing awareness. Absolutely. 

Abby (01:21:05) So. And I’m a huge advocate of getting external support as well. I have gotten support from lots of healers and I can probably for the rest of my life. And so with that, if someone wants to work with either of you, what’s the best way for them to connect with you? 

Breann (01:21:26) I’m going to go for a spree.

Breann (01:21:28) Sure. The best way would probably be, I have my email I also have a calendar Calendly page. You can find the link for that on my Instagram, @VenusandChiron. So that would probably be the quickest, easiest way. You can also DM me on that Instagram page as well. Yeah. 

Abby (01:21:49) Awesome. And they can go and listen to your podcast there.

Breann (01:21:52) You can go listen to my podcast. That’s true too. There’s the, I created that podcast to kind of be like a free resource for people that are working through this. To be able to listen and learn some tools to develop their intuitive abilities and set boundaries and ground and things like that. So there’s lots of content there around that fantastic resource.

Jessica (01:22:14) And there’s an episode where we do some pretty intense bodywork on me. So if you want to kind of get an idea of some of the ways that Breanne can work and just how good she is at what she does, I think it was a great showcase of your strengths. Yeah. And for me, it’s Zen.lasagna on Instagram.

Jessica (01:22:31) And you just, you can shoot me a consult or shoot me an email or book a consult, and we can kind of just have a moment to figure out if, if working together feels right for you, you can talk about what’s going on. And it’s just a good way to start the conversation in terms of doing work together. So you can book a consult, even if you’re unsure, and say, okay, 

Abby (01:22:51) No pressure. No, thank you, ladies. I love you both. Thank you so much for your wisdom. 

Jessica (01:22:58) Yeah. I love you both so much. And I, I can’t stress enough. I needed this conversation today, so I love how timely it is to get together as always is, right? Yeah. 

Abby (01:23:09) Nourishing or being with your community. Yeah. 

Jessica (01:23:12) And I would love to do this again.

Breann (01:23:14) So maybe I’ll invite you guys onto the medicine show.

Abby (01:23:17)  I’d love that. I’d love to have you, ladies, on here again. Making a semi-regular thing.

Abby (01:23:23) I was going to say, I would like to do a little group get-together.

Breann (01:23:26) Cycle our pod around our pockets.

Abby (01:23:32) So many pods within a big pot. 

Jessica (01:23:37) It’s making me a picture like three little peas in a pod. 

Abby (01:23:40) Like, ah, that’s so cute. They’re just our heads. I just see Breanne’s smiling face. I was like a little pea.

Breann (01:23:48) That sweet little visual.